That what was said about Madrid and Drachen Spire both got approved without some much as a single decent.
Probably but one can dream.
Concepts Think Tank
- Thread starter Zachary
- Start date
Probably but one can dream.
Those aren't really fair comparisons, KK is much bigger. Regardless of where you put it, it would be visible from Kingsmill, and they'd fight it hard. And there was quite a bit of dissent for the 355 ft Drachen Spire proposal before it ultimately won approval. KK is 100 feet taller, and BGW squandered the good will it had in getting Madrid and DS approved but not built.
So this is like 3rd/4th hand info I got from the urban planning community:
BGW hasn't really lost any good will with the county board over not building it. Likely with each pass when they need a variance the noise from Kingsmill is just going to get louder but it will be approved most likely.
What makes it seem like friction is #1 - BGW has to present these plans and desire for variances without giving away too much. It does mean it's very vague in what they are describing. What I heard was with the noise, there were a lot of Kingsmill residents that were worried about the noises a lift would make as it wasn't really well known outside the thoosie community this was going to be a launch coaster. So the residents weren't really given a great picture of what would be in there.
And #2 - Kingsmill has become quite the senior resident development over the years and this 3rd/4th hand info shared that they actually fight a majority of development in the greater Williamsburg area citing traffic, sounds, crime, basically anything. According to this person what they have heard is it's Kingsmill HOA/residents that are losing good will with the county rather than any business, developer, or builder.
I think next time we see BGW have to apply for a height waiver there's actually going to be more pressure on the residents to answer questions than the park to defend itself.
Kings Mill certainly tried to block Drachen Spire but in the end the county board took all of 30 seconds to deliberate before passing it with 100% of the of the vote.
Curse of the Banshee
The first Vekoma Flying Coaster in the Americas.
Killarney may seem like any other Irish hamlet, bustling by day and restful by night. But if you ask the locals they will tell you why they don’t venture out of their home after dark. It is said those who are found wandering under the moon’s light will hear the cry of the Banshee that resides in the abandoned castle on Corkscrew Hill. The vengeful spirit sets her sight on the unsuspecting traveler, leaving only their screams in the wind to tell of their fate. If you hear her, it’s too late. You’re doomed to the Curse of the Banshee!
This would take the new Vekoma flying coaster as seen in F.L.Y. In Phantasialand and use the former EitA building as the station and short dark ride segment, similar to F.L.Y. But instead of steampunk theming, we will see a haunted castle before being launched out at the speed of fright twisting and turning through ravine around Killarney and soaring over and around Killarney village. Possible interactions could include the Killarney bridge, the bridge connecting to the England parking lot, the gate/passage connecting abbey stone theater and castle o Sullivan. Possible usage of the pet shenanigans theater space as well.
Here’s a video showing the ride system and how it is different than any other flying coaster. It would be the second in the world.
Direct Link to Embedded Media Source
The first Vekoma Flying Coaster in the Americas.
Killarney may seem like any other Irish hamlet, bustling by day and restful by night. But if you ask the locals they will tell you why they don’t venture out of their home after dark. It is said those who are found wandering under the moon’s light will hear the cry of the Banshee that resides in the abandoned castle on Corkscrew Hill. The vengeful spirit sets her sight on the unsuspecting traveler, leaving only their screams in the wind to tell of their fate. If you hear her, it’s too late. You’re doomed to the Curse of the Banshee!
This would take the new Vekoma flying coaster as seen in F.L.Y. In Phantasialand and use the former EitA building as the station and short dark ride segment, similar to F.L.Y. But instead of steampunk theming, we will see a haunted castle before being launched out at the speed of fright twisting and turning through ravine around Killarney and soaring over and around Killarney village. Possible interactions could include the Killarney bridge, the bridge connecting to the England parking lot, the gate/passage connecting abbey stone theater and castle o Sullivan. Possible usage of the pet shenanigans theater space as well.
Here’s a video showing the ride system and how it is different than any other flying coaster. It would be the second in the world.
Direct Link to Embedded Media Source
I really like the banshee lore tie in and the ride type. I really feel like that corner could use a ride that would jump roof top to roof top and make use of the space behind the lorikeets, castle Sulivan and the sim building/area if not going to be refitted. There is concern about losing hollow scream capability, but a ride is more important IMO.
I think it’s possible to gut out castle o Sullivan and use that space for haunts and special events like they did with darkastle a while back. You can still use the old entrance for Killarney diner and have it turn right instead of left maybe and have the exit go out through castle o Sullivan’s old entrance
Grimm’s Hollow
Big bad wolf isn’t the only thing returning with new life.
Grimm’s Hollow is a family centered area of the park utilizing the secluded setting to bring fairytales to life.
RED Big Bad Wolf: The Wolf’s Revenge
YELLOW Pied Piper’s Musical Rats: a relocated elephant run with new decor and new flute based music. (OG location of elephant run would become Bacchus Bar, a wine based food and wine location with food to pair with the wine )
PURPLE Hansel and Gretel’s: a quick service kiosk featuring fresh baked designer cookies and other sweet treats.
GREEN Grimm Brothers Storybook Circle: the brothers Grimm attempt to tell their stories but the characters jump to life and cause hijinx galore. Afterwards, meet and greet with your favorite fairytale characters.
BLUE Jack’s Beanstalk Bouncer: a small scale S&S space shot themed to the beanstalk from Jack and the Beanstalk.
WHITE The new footpath creating a loop around the hamlet with lots of fun scenery and maybe some interactive spots along the path.
The biggest emphasis would be on landscaping and theming to make this area of the park feel quaint and fun for children who are ready for something more thrilling than Sesame Street FoF and Land of the Dragons , but not quite ready for the bigger rides.
Big bad wolf isn’t the only thing returning with new life.
Grimm’s Hollow is a family centered area of the park utilizing the secluded setting to bring fairytales to life.
RED Big Bad Wolf: The Wolf’s Revenge
YELLOW Pied Piper’s Musical Rats: a relocated elephant run with new decor and new flute based music. (OG location of elephant run would become Bacchus Bar, a wine based food and wine location with food to pair with the wine )
PURPLE Hansel and Gretel’s: a quick service kiosk featuring fresh baked designer cookies and other sweet treats.
GREEN Grimm Brothers Storybook Circle: the brothers Grimm attempt to tell their stories but the characters jump to life and cause hijinx galore. Afterwards, meet and greet with your favorite fairytale characters.
BLUE Jack’s Beanstalk Bouncer: a small scale S&S space shot themed to the beanstalk from Jack and the Beanstalk.
WHITE The new footpath creating a loop around the hamlet with lots of fun scenery and maybe some interactive spots along the path.
The biggest emphasis would be on landscaping and theming to make this area of the park feel quaint and fun for children who are ready for something more thrilling than Sesame Street FoF and Land of the Dragons , but not quite ready for the bigger rides.
Attachments
Really liking the flying coaster concept, especially as Batwing's future is looking pretty bleak with Nighthawk's fate sealed. Had Finnegan's Flyer not already been built, I would have been more against building a big ride in Ireland. As a bonus, this will probably be a better Banshee than KI's, a jab at Six Flags.
That said, I'd still prefer keeping the simulator building for an indoor (and hopefully family) attraction, and as for the flyer placement, axing Verbolten for the flyer so we can get closer to the water than the original Wolf ever did.
That said, I'd still prefer keeping the simulator building for an indoor (and hopefully family) attraction, and as for the flyer placement, axing Verbolten for the flyer so we can get closer to the water than the original Wolf ever did.
Le Mans - de la Sarthe :: A France concept coaster.
While I'm not bringing back the antique cars of the past, I am bringing back the name as BGW has been looking like its cashing in on some nostalgia lately. But, I propose a B&M dueling launch coaster by this name. And to take this even further, it's going to be a mobius style racer (1 long track that mirrors), but in the style of family friendly like Penguin Trek
Starting out the station would go in the space between the skyride and the train. with the launch facing to go over the pathway. As you come out the raised station that's about 10 feet higher than the pathway, it's up over a bunny hill of the pathway and back along the area between the train and RPT. After a left turn the track would make a tight right hand hammerhead turn in the space behind RPT to exit towards Busch Gardens Boulevard. As it crosses over the road and train tracks, the two parts of the racing track would criss cross as they make 3 bunny hill hops. It would then continue to race along Busch Gardens Boulevard with a succession of hills and s-curves to the far end of the England lot, where along the way a boost launch would happen. Using some of the wooded area there, the tracks would split to get near miss elements in a pretzel loop turn where they interact in a "spaghetti bowl" of track, after which it exits along the park side of the England parking lot. Here it would have one more boost as it crosses over the the path between Ireland and the Wild Preserve area with a few more bunny hills.
At this point, depending on your loop, you enter the pits, or victory row. This would be an in-closed area where if you are in the pits, the train slows as you pass by screens depicting other cars getting their pit row fixes, then you get to your 'pit station' where the screens show a team racing to 'change your tires' and 'fuel the car'. As you roll forward, you are hit with a red flag to stop racing, and once the station is ready to launch you get a 'green flag' to go. On the station side you come into the covered area of crowds cheering and a checked flag with roses being tossed your way for your win.
I wish I had the ability to make a really nice looking mockup of this concept, but describing is the best I could do.
While I'm not bringing back the antique cars of the past, I am bringing back the name as BGW has been looking like its cashing in on some nostalgia lately. But, I propose a B&M dueling launch coaster by this name. And to take this even further, it's going to be a mobius style racer (1 long track that mirrors), but in the style of family friendly like Penguin Trek
Starting out the station would go in the space between the skyride and the train. with the launch facing to go over the pathway. As you come out the raised station that's about 10 feet higher than the pathway, it's up over a bunny hill of the pathway and back along the area between the train and RPT. After a left turn the track would make a tight right hand hammerhead turn in the space behind RPT to exit towards Busch Gardens Boulevard. As it crosses over the road and train tracks, the two parts of the racing track would criss cross as they make 3 bunny hill hops. It would then continue to race along Busch Gardens Boulevard with a succession of hills and s-curves to the far end of the England lot, where along the way a boost launch would happen. Using some of the wooded area there, the tracks would split to get near miss elements in a pretzel loop turn where they interact in a "spaghetti bowl" of track, after which it exits along the park side of the England parking lot. Here it would have one more boost as it crosses over the the path between Ireland and the Wild Preserve area with a few more bunny hills.
At this point, depending on your loop, you enter the pits, or victory row. This would be an in-closed area where if you are in the pits, the train slows as you pass by screens depicting other cars getting their pit row fixes, then you get to your 'pit station' where the screens show a team racing to 'change your tires' and 'fuel the car'. As you roll forward, you are hit with a red flag to stop racing, and once the station is ready to launch you get a 'green flag' to go. On the station side you come into the covered area of crowds cheering and a checked flag with roses being tossed your way for your win.
I wish I had the ability to make a really nice looking mockup of this concept, but describing is the best I could do.
I'm having a hard time understanding how this would fit into that space - could you attempt to provide some kind of illustration? (Google Maps with a MS Paint line overlay is totally fine)
I did my best with this so here's the full track:
And the station:
For the station the Yellow is the covered area that features screens, the white is a queue plaza off of Griffon's plaza and the queue line that snakes under the skyride and enters into the building. The exit would come out along that same line into the plaza.
In both of these, the Blue represents your first lap, and the Red represents lap 2.
Last thing of note: This would be the world record holder in track length. Steel Dragon 2000 is 1.6 miles of track, this would be 2.08 miles all said and done.
And the station:
For the station the Yellow is the covered area that features screens, the white is a queue plaza off of Griffon's plaza and the queue line that snakes under the skyride and enters into the building. The exit would come out along that same line into the plaza.
In both of these, the Blue represents your first lap, and the Red represents lap 2.
Last thing of note: This would be the world record holder in track length. Steel Dragon 2000 is 1.6 miles of track, this would be 2.08 miles all said and done.
I like the general treatment of your concept but that track length and the multiple pipeline easement crossings make the project completely unrealistic I'm afraid.
Your pitch gives big West Coast Racers vibes. Maybe another dueling mobius loop coaster from Premier at around 4,000 feet could accomplish your same idea while being constrained entirely to the south side of the pipeline easement? The station area next to the skyride and the launch/brake/straighter segments crossing in front of Aquitaine and down the side of the Royal Palace Theatre would be pretty tight with 4 tracks running through there, but if you stacked the brakes on top of the launch sections it should be feasible I'd think. Then, using the railroad turnaround behind the RPT for a denser, twister section of the layout (again, see West Coast Racers), I think the land use makes a lot more sense.
The only other major concern I would have is what it would do to Aquitaine. I'm always weary of more deforestation around the pipeline easement and obstructing one of the best reveals in the park (Aquitaine coming out of the Wild Reserve) with a bunch of coaster track strikes me as very undesirable. I, too, have long found the Aquitaine railroad infield to be a tremendously desirable expansion plot, but I much prefer pairing it with either a removal/relocation of the Royal Palace Theatre and/or accessing the plot from New France by relocating Catapult again.
Anyway, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to bash your idea into the ground or whatever @warfelg—I really do think it's a clever theme, Aquitaine, broadly, is a fitting placement, and it's a unique ride type for the region and something I have never seen pitched for BGW previously. Lots of strengths there! Would you ever consider a similar concept for Banbury? England has a ton of racing heritage as well. It's a sketchier expansion pad, but maybe something like this?
If the Banbury Cross/Loch Lohmon expansion pad proposed above were ever used, I certainly hope BGW would retain Killarney's access to the larger plot towards Route 60. With Festhaus Park out of the running, that is the next "Holy Grail" flagship, record breaking coaster plot if you ask me.
Your pitch gives big West Coast Racers vibes. Maybe another dueling mobius loop coaster from Premier at around 4,000 feet could accomplish your same idea while being constrained entirely to the south side of the pipeline easement? The station area next to the skyride and the launch/brake/straighter segments crossing in front of Aquitaine and down the side of the Royal Palace Theatre would be pretty tight with 4 tracks running through there, but if you stacked the brakes on top of the launch sections it should be feasible I'd think. Then, using the railroad turnaround behind the RPT for a denser, twister section of the layout (again, see West Coast Racers), I think the land use makes a lot more sense.
The only other major concern I would have is what it would do to Aquitaine. I'm always weary of more deforestation around the pipeline easement and obstructing one of the best reveals in the park (Aquitaine coming out of the Wild Reserve) with a bunch of coaster track strikes me as very undesirable. I, too, have long found the Aquitaine railroad infield to be a tremendously desirable expansion plot, but I much prefer pairing it with either a removal/relocation of the Royal Palace Theatre and/or accessing the plot from New France by relocating Catapult again.
Anyway, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to bash your idea into the ground or whatever @warfelg—I really do think it's a clever theme, Aquitaine, broadly, is a fitting placement, and it's a unique ride type for the region and something I have never seen pitched for BGW previously. Lots of strengths there! Would you ever consider a similar concept for Banbury? England has a ton of racing heritage as well. It's a sketchier expansion pad, but maybe something like this?
If the Banbury Cross/Loch Lohmon expansion pad proposed above were ever used, I certainly hope BGW would retain Killarney's access to the larger plot towards Route 60. With Festhaus Park out of the running, that is the next "Holy Grail" flagship, record breaking coaster plot if you ask me.
@Zachary - No problems at all with the feedback. I know I was taking a risk with the pipeline being there and trying to get the easement. My original thought to that was to actually go much bigger with moving of items and going with shortening the BG Blvd loop and moving the employee parking road to put the station there so no tree removal had to happen and then you could avoid the pipeline. My concern with doing that is the station ends up feeling too removed from everything else.
As for the concern of what it would do to Aquitaine - If I had to cross over the path, I would propose that the area of that track gets HEAVILY themed to look like Pont du Gard Aquaduct:
I feel like that very much fits into the area.
Additionally I thought about the England ride placement, but I feel like unless you are very creative with making it not seem like a ride is there, then we should keep England ride free. I could however see using the Sim building as the station and launching out from there and utilizing that plot to some degree.
But overall appreciate the feedback. Trying to do something new and creative with a concept to really bring something unique to the park.
As for the concern of what it would do to Aquitaine - If I had to cross over the path, I would propose that the area of that track gets HEAVILY themed to look like Pont du Gard Aquaduct:
I feel like that very much fits into the area.
Additionally I thought about the England ride placement, but I feel like unless you are very creative with making it not seem like a ride is there, then we should keep England ride free. I could however see using the Sim building as the station and launching out from there and utilizing that plot to some degree.
But overall appreciate the feedback. Trying to do something new and creative with a concept to really bring something unique to the park.
So with mumblings of Pompeii's uncertain future and the dwindling collection of family rides, I propose a multi tracked electric family car ride to replace Pompeii
The general idea of the project would expand Banbury Cross to the Pompeii area through the Sesame and Skyride area via this car ride. England/Italy would be divided by the bridge.
The ride idea would be two tracks, with the tracks and pedestrian pathways overlapping with each other. Themed to English racing and close to the front of the park, families would immediately come across this attraction whether they ride or not as walking over and under the tracks would be necessary to get to Italy.
Below is the 2 acre ride footprint as it's the flattest area but also some terrain fall in some areas to build layers like Le Mans.
Yes, the building would be gone. It's used for entertainment. Howl-o-Scream and Christmas Town would be different without it. But if the ride goes, why would the building stick around? Unlike DarKastle, the Pompeii show building was built very specifically for the the boat ride.
I do think a car ride brings a little charm into a theme park. And with thoughts of the park wanting to start expanding on large family rides, I think Pompeii is a great place simply because of its uncertain future and large footprint. I love Pompeii as a concept and its ride experience though and would hate to see it go.
The general idea of the project would expand Banbury Cross to the Pompeii area through the Sesame and Skyride area via this car ride. England/Italy would be divided by the bridge.
The ride idea would be two tracks, with the tracks and pedestrian pathways overlapping with each other. Themed to English racing and close to the front of the park, families would immediately come across this attraction whether they ride or not as walking over and under the tracks would be necessary to get to Italy.
Below is the 2 acre ride footprint as it's the flattest area but also some terrain fall in some areas to build layers like Le Mans.
Yes, the building would be gone. It's used for entertainment. Howl-o-Scream and Christmas Town would be different without it. But if the ride goes, why would the building stick around? Unlike DarKastle, the Pompeii show building was built very specifically for the the boat ride.
I do think a car ride brings a little charm into a theme park. And with thoughts of the park wanting to start expanding on large family rides, I think Pompeii is a great place simply because of its uncertain future and large footprint. I love Pompeii as a concept and its ride experience though and would hate to see it go.
I could see that! And a bonus here is that utilizing this plot could allow for the park to make the Rhine River ADA accessible by starting access over by the building side of Pompeii. Two birds, one stone. And while you’re at the car ride idea, they could also add a flat for neat intersction points and photo ops.
When Escape from Pompeii does eventually die, I would find it unconscionable to demo the building. There are plenty of coasters you could send through updated versions of the show scenes up top—likely without all that much difficulty honestly.
I've always loved the idea of a Cobra's Curse sister coaster with Pompeii's same dig site theme and an elevator lift up to the building's entrance. With the controlled rotation the ride system is capable of, you could do even more interesting work in the building story-wise. The darkride portion could easily match Mummy and I think it would be a monumental hit. Prior to the drop, the trains could rotate backwards as the doors open before following the same straight drop as Pompeii does, just falling out of the building backwards. Rest of the layout could just be a dense twister layout with spinning unlocked after a midcourse.
I think it could be really, really good. I'm also a huge Cobra's Curse fan though so...
I've always loved the idea of a Cobra's Curse sister coaster with Pompeii's same dig site theme and an elevator lift up to the building's entrance. With the controlled rotation the ride system is capable of, you could do even more interesting work in the building story-wise. The darkride portion could easily match Mummy and I think it would be a monumental hit. Prior to the drop, the trains could rotate backwards as the doors open before following the same straight drop as Pompeii does, just falling out of the building backwards. Rest of the layout could just be a dense twister layout with spinning unlocked after a midcourse.
I think it could be really, really good. I'm also a huge Cobra's Curse fan though so...
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I always thought when Roman Rapids is too expensive to maintain...You could bring back Lemans as say....Monza and use the existing layout and add some new twists in the area that is now the big reservoir retention area in the middle. Of course the only real issue with that is staffing and how are you going to power the cars. Gas....untenable in the current climate....but electric...maint/charge issues.
I do like Zackary's idea...take the water damage out of the building and a little rehab and maybe the building could continue on, but honestly...Volcano mountain says hold my beer...
I do like Zackary's idea...take the water damage out of the building and a little rehab and maybe the building could continue on, but honestly...Volcano mountain says hold my beer...
Lochness, Alpengiest, InvadR, Verbolten, should be removed!
These coasters are rough as heck and not enjoyable at all. Why would you ride them over the smooth coasters like Apollo's and Griffin? The smoothness difference is night and day. I've only ridden Patheon once and can't remember how smooth it was.
Are there people out there that actually enjoy them and don't have a headache after riding them? Or are you just riding them because they are there and it's a fun experience without really criticizing ride comfort and comparing them to the coasters that are really smooth?
[Admin Note: I edited the original thread title into this post for clarity, when I moved it here ]
These coasters are rough as heck and not enjoyable at all. Why would you ride them over the smooth coasters like Apollo's and Griffin? The smoothness difference is night and day. I've only ridden Patheon once and can't remember how smooth it was.
Are there people out there that actually enjoy them and don't have a headache after riding them? Or are you just riding them because they are there and it's a fun experience without really criticizing ride comfort and comparing them to the coasters that are really smooth?
[Admin Note: I edited the original thread title into this post for clarity, when I moved it here ]
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