News Cedar Fair Merges with Six Flags
- Thread starter horsesboy
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There's a lot of kids areas in the chain that are completely non IP also. Thinking like SFGAm has the former Wiggles kids area and the former Camp Cartoon areas, neither of which have IP anymore, this question might be geared towards whether areas like that should be themed or not.
But orange trees exist...wait...
...orange trees are primarily in Florida and California, and Universal is in Florida and California...
...so what you are saying is Universal is going to take over the rights!
But orange trees exist...wait...
...orange trees are primarily in Florida and California, and Universal is in Florida and California...
...so what you are saying is Universal is going to take over the rights!
Wait a second, I've seen this one before...
There was a new article about the corporate board selling a number of parks. This could create an interesting twist for the theme park industry. As I speculated last season, my guess is that they are going to sell parks in markets that in turn draw from the same geographic region. Example of that is Six Flags America and Kings Dominion. Both parks have had a lot of capital invested in them over a decade and beyond, but they both draw from the same geographic region; which in turn could question whether or not the park closer to D.C. gets more attention than a park that is 2 hours away. On second thought, if parks are sold, what companies would be interested in buying them?
Cedar Fair has spent a great deal and time in making their parks unique from one another. Six Flags on the other hand only does this with a few, while the smaller parks receive rides that resemble each other. It would be rather nice to see the Six Flags brand break this trend and make their parks more exclusive with themes and attractions.
Cedar Fair has spent a great deal and time in making their parks unique from one another. Six Flags on the other hand only does this with a few, while the smaller parks receive rides that resemble each other. It would be rather nice to see the Six Flags brand break this trend and make their parks more exclusive with themes and attractions.
People keep putting the cart before the horse here. They haven’t said they are selling even one park, let alone a “number of parks”. They are evaluating and making decisions after that evaluation. Nothing is currently being sold. This announcement may be as much about seeing if anyone is interested in buying/selling parks as anything. Remember several times similar things have been floated and nothing became of it. Also remember that Busch Entertainment initially approached Premier about buying Geauga Lake, then Premier turned around and offered to buy out SeaWorld Ohio. This could result in nothing, or further deals/mergers. Especially with the incoming administration most likely allowing just about any merger with little regulatory scrutiny.
I would say yes and no to that @GAcoaster - I feel like it's a little bit of that cart before the horse as to which parks and what will happen to them. But it shouldn't be a shock at all that they will want to do this.
And in that vein, I believe that there's fears of losing parks going through a lot of people's minds. And in instances of merger then discussions of offloading some of the properties, its not often that they sell that same thing. To give an example, we've seen a lot of chain restaurants getting bought, put into bankruptcy, closing a lot of locations. The reason being investors (like Blackrock) have figured out that the debt of the product (like Red Lobster) is so bad that the land they sit on is basically discounted (which is far more valuable). So they buy it, get the company to bankrupt, then make the money off redeveloping the land or just selling the land.
Not saying that's exactly what's happening here. But in selling parks, they'll see that selling the land and not the product is double the value because it prevents any competition plus gives them the money of the valuable land.
I saw this first hand when my family sold our business. The market stand we had and the land (because of grandfathered zoning) were far more valuable than the business (pretzels and bakery). So when people were looking to buy, we wrote offers where they had to keep it as the same business, name and everything. When we took that out, that they could do what they wanted but we were selling the business and the bricks and mortar together, the value jumped 350%.
So basically long story short - the fact that they are floating selling should have the fear that is means parks are going to disappear forever.
And in that vein, I believe that there's fears of losing parks going through a lot of people's minds. And in instances of merger then discussions of offloading some of the properties, its not often that they sell that same thing. To give an example, we've seen a lot of chain restaurants getting bought, put into bankruptcy, closing a lot of locations. The reason being investors (like Blackrock) have figured out that the debt of the product (like Red Lobster) is so bad that the land they sit on is basically discounted (which is far more valuable). So they buy it, get the company to bankrupt, then make the money off redeveloping the land or just selling the land.
Not saying that's exactly what's happening here. But in selling parks, they'll see that selling the land and not the product is double the value because it prevents any competition plus gives them the money of the valuable land.
I saw this first hand when my family sold our business. The market stand we had and the land (because of grandfathered zoning) were far more valuable than the business (pretzels and bakery). So when people were looking to buy, we wrote offers where they had to keep it as the same business, name and everything. When we took that out, that they could do what they wanted but we were selling the business and the bricks and mortar together, the value jumped 350%.
So basically long story short - the fact that they are floating selling should have the fear that is means parks are going to disappear forever.
Yeah I have to say just based on the value of the land Six Flags America sits on, that park I would be deeply concerned about its survival at this point. We’ve already seen what Cedar Fair was willing to do with CGA which also sits on VERY valuable land.
I’d say parks that underperform but are in HCOL areas sitting on valuable real estate they’d be the ones I’d be the most concerned with. If the real estate isn’t valuable and the park is profitable then there may not be as much of an incentive to offload the asset.
I’d say parks that underperform but are in HCOL areas sitting on valuable real estate they’d be the ones I’d be the most concerned with. If the real estate isn’t valuable and the park is profitable then there may not be as much of an incentive to offload the asset.
Tried to figure out what PG county has SFA assessed for to see if it would be profitable for SF to offload SFA to developers. Was able to find 265 acres assessed for 27M in the Maryland property data search (Maryland SDAT). I'll be honest, that number seems low for the area. That would put the land at around 101k/acre, a quick google search tells me land around the area goes for about 150k/acre.
That seems to be half of the land the park sits on. I looked up the total land owned and they seem to own at least 800 acres.
If we say 800 acres at $150k/acre, we get $120M, which is actually less than I thought it could fetch. I was expecting the land around there to be worth around $200M, TBH.
If we go with the state assessed value of 101k/acre, we get even less at only $80M. I'm not sure it would be worth it at all for that price.
Compare this to CGA selling for $310M, and I'm not sure they would sell.
That seems to be half of the land the park sits on. I looked up the total land owned and they seem to own at least 800 acres.
If we say 800 acres at $150k/acre, we get $120M, which is actually less than I thought it could fetch. I was expecting the land around there to be worth around $200M, TBH.
If we go with the state assessed value of 101k/acre, we get even less at only $80M. I'm not sure it would be worth it at all for that price.
Compare this to CGA selling for $310M, and I'm not sure they would sell.
Good digging. It really all depends how corporate views the value the park generates versus what offers they would get for that land.
You also have to consider the costs of remediation of the land to make it developable, which is likely several million at least.
In the 25 years it’s been SFA the whole area has been built up a lot. That land is valuable, it’s just a question of is it more valuable as a park or housing development. I would imagine it actually makes a decent profit with a large (relatively) low wage labor force and high profit margins.
well, since abc (now owned by disney) was the old owner for the park, I can only imagine what would have been if abc still owned that park and therefore disney buying abc (disney america?)
Assessed value and actual value are not the same thing in the real estate world.
Went into my portal today and saw that the Prestige Pass benefits for next year have changed a little (at least for legacy SF).
1. Preferred parking is now included - it was just general before
2. The two "Bring a friend free" passes can now be used on any operating day - previously had to be used before Labor Day
1. Preferred parking is now included - it was just general before
2. The two "Bring a friend free" passes can now be used on any operating day - previously had to be used before Labor Day
Yeah reading through the Reddit the Paramount IP is at all the same thing. The rights acquired from Paramount where a shirt term deal with high licensing cost and heavy limit on merchandise sales. None of those are issues with the WB SF contract I would be extremely surprised to see it go anytime soon.
Quoting for emphasis.
I'm sure there are examples of commercial real estate being assessed at full market value. But I'm not aware of any offhand. Typically assessment is notably lower than market price, because it isn't used nor intended to inform sales in any way.
