News Rider Dead After Being Thrown from Goliath at Six Flags Over Georgia
- Thread starter Magic-Man
- Start date
Operator error and deliberate improper modification of a ride aren’t even remotely similar. There was a shared end result, sure, but blame falls on a different party in each scenario and different actions need to be taken.
Want to quickly bookend the photo debate and then retrack the thread.
@RollyCoaster did not break any forum rules by posting the photo and did attempt to hide it behind a spoiler tag to prevent anyone from seeing it inadvertently. That's what I would have told him to do if he had asked me.
That being said, because some people apparently saw the image anyway due to some issue with the the spoiler tag functionality (maybe disabled/blocked JavaScript on the client side or similar
) I edited @RollyCoaster's post to remove the photo itself and replaced it with a link to a Facebook post with the photo.
If you believe the content violates Facebook's rules, go report it there. If you think our policy should be different (we will likely need to formalize something anyway in the wake of this), message your favorite Advisory Panel member with your thoughts.
Now, back to the actual news.
I don't know why you'd think that. Cedar Point was knowingly using non-manufacturer-compliant parts on Top Thrill and they basically made off without any punishment.
The Orlando drop tower operator knowingly modified the restraints out of manufacturer spec and next to no punishment resulted there.
Our current laws massively shield parks from most liability even when wrongdoing is crystal clear. There will be a civil suit, but I think it's highly unlikely that anything further will result unfortunately.
The posts online from eye witnesses thus far seem to suggest that the restraint physically failed mid-ride. MAYBE the restraint wasn't ratcheted all the way (meaning it was likely operator error when checking the restraint)? Even then though, as far as I understand, there are multiple ratchets between minimum verify and wide open and it should have slipped into one of those lesser ratchets.
Right now it sorta seems more likely to me that the restraint/mechanism itself broke somehow. I think people are right to suspect some really shotty maintenance, but hopefully we'll get a real, robust investigation with actual answers eventually.
@RollyCoaster did not break any forum rules by posting the photo and did attempt to hide it behind a spoiler tag to prevent anyone from seeing it inadvertently. That's what I would have told him to do if he had asked me.
That being said, because some people apparently saw the image anyway due to some issue with the the spoiler tag functionality (maybe disabled/blocked JavaScript on the client side or similar
) I edited @RollyCoaster's post to remove the photo itself and replaced it with a link to a Facebook post with the photo.If you believe the content violates Facebook's rules, go report it there. If you think our policy should be different (we will likely need to formalize something anyway in the wake of this), message your favorite Advisory Panel member with your thoughts.
Now, back to the actual news.
I don't know why you'd think that. Cedar Point was knowingly using non-manufacturer-compliant parts on Top Thrill and they basically made off without any punishment.
The Orlando drop tower operator knowingly modified the restraints out of manufacturer spec and next to no punishment resulted there.
Our current laws massively shield parks from most liability even when wrongdoing is crystal clear. There will be a civil suit, but I think it's highly unlikely that anything further will result unfortunately.
The posts online from eye witnesses thus far seem to suggest that the restraint physically failed mid-ride. MAYBE the restraint wasn't ratcheted all the way (meaning it was likely operator error when checking the restraint)? Even then though, as far as I understand, there are multiple ratchets between minimum verify and wide open and it should have slipped into one of those lesser ratchets.
Right now it sorta seems more likely to me that the restraint/mechanism itself broke somehow. I think people are right to suspect some really shotty maintenance, but hopefully we'll get a real, robust investigation with actual answers eventually.
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Hate me too, but the spoiler works when I look at the post; @RollyCoaster seemed to be very careful to indicate what it was and that it's graphic.
That being the case, I agree it's relevant to the conversation as it's definitive proof of someone coming out of their seat instead of conjecture.
Tbh, I just happened to see a random Instagram post of what appeared to be a lift stop claiming someone fell off; I thought it was the usual casual guest not understanding how safety systems tend to work by stopping the ride if it thinks there's an unsafe condition. But then I came on here and it seemed like lots of additional speculation - that picture is absolutely proof.
What I wonder is what actually happened?
If I remember Ryan the Ride Mechanic's explanation of B&M restraints correctly, there's at least two independent locking mechanisms (redundant backup), plus if the sensor doesn't register the minimum verification in the station the PLC wouldn't allow a dispatch.
I wouldn't rule it out, but I highly doubt ride programming had been done without the manufacturer involved. I also doubt that maintenance wouldn't have done at least the bare minimum inspections and part replacements as required. If anything, it's possible non-OEM parts may have been used and failed, but I would hope after the high profile TTD incident all parks would have gone away from the practice.
All of those items are plausible, and I imagine qualified forensic examiners will look into them.
But I wonder if the root cause was a ride op not doing their job right, if it was the guest leaning into their seat in such a way as to defeat the restraints via leaving a sizeable gap, and/or management prioritizing op speed over safety by aggressively chasing dispatch/throughput targets.
The only way seatbelts could be all that useful on clamshell trains is if either they lock off the sides to the seat and are a highly visible item for ride ops to check. Otherwise they'd have to be over the lap, and verified by the ride ops before dispatch. In either case, I don't think they're typically certified to be load bearing in case the main restraint fails.
That being the case, I agree it's relevant to the conversation as it's definitive proof of someone coming out of their seat instead of conjecture.
Tbh, I just happened to see a random Instagram post of what appeared to be a lift stop claiming someone fell off; I thought it was the usual casual guest not understanding how safety systems tend to work by stopping the ride if it thinks there's an unsafe condition. But then I came on here and it seemed like lots of additional speculation - that picture is absolutely proof.
What I wonder is what actually happened?
If I remember Ryan the Ride Mechanic's explanation of B&M restraints correctly, there's at least two independent locking mechanisms (redundant backup), plus if the sensor doesn't register the minimum verification in the station the PLC wouldn't allow a dispatch.
I wouldn't rule it out, but I highly doubt ride programming had been done without the manufacturer involved. I also doubt that maintenance wouldn't have done at least the bare minimum inspections and part replacements as required. If anything, it's possible non-OEM parts may have been used and failed, but I would hope after the high profile TTD incident all parks would have gone away from the practice.
All of those items are plausible, and I imagine qualified forensic examiners will look into them.
But I wonder if the root cause was a ride op not doing their job right, if it was the guest leaning into their seat in such a way as to defeat the restraints via leaving a sizeable gap, and/or management prioritizing op speed over safety by aggressively chasing dispatch/throughput targets.
The only way seatbelts could be all that useful on clamshell trains is if either they lock off the sides to the seat and are a highly visible item for ride ops to check. Otherwise they'd have to be over the lap, and verified by the ride ops before dispatch. In either case, I don't think they're typically certified to be load bearing in case the main restraint fails.
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Haven't been to SFOG in a good long while, but are seatbelts not in use? I know Carowinds has them on Fury and Thunder Striker. Fury has particular interesting ops in that you are instructed to buckle the belt and let a ride op push down the lap bar for you. Is it just legacy CF parks that use seatbelts as a fail-safe? Can't remember off the dome if KD and BGW use them.
Apollo/nitro/raging bull do not use them
Raging Bull is my home Hyper. I’ve never felt unsafe on it in my life.
That’s a shame. But it’s 100% correctWant to quickly bookend the photo debate and then retrack the thread.
@RollyCoaster did not break any forum rules by posting the photo and did attempt to hide it behind a spoiler tag to prevent anyone from seeing it inadvertently. That's what I would have told him to do if he had asked me.
That being said, because some people apparently saw the image anyway due to some issue with the the spoiler tag functionality (maybe disabled/blocked JavaScript on the client side or similar
If you believe the content violates Facebook's rules, go report it there. If you think our policy should be different (we will likely need to formalize something anyway in the wake of this), message your favorite Advisory Panel member with your thoughts.
Now, back to the actual news.
I don't know why you'd think that. Cedar Point was knowingly using non-manufacturer-compliant parts on Top Thrill and they basically made off without any punishment.
The Orlando drop tower operator knowingly modified the restraints out of manufacturer spec and next to no punishment resulted there.
Our current laws massively shield parks from most liability even when wrongdoing is crystal clear. There will be a civil suit, but I think it's highly unlikely that anything further will result unfortunately.
The posts online from eye witnesses thus far seem to suggest that the restraint physically failed mid-ride. MAYBE the restraint wasn't ratcheted all the way (meaning it was likely operator error when checking the restraint)? Even then though, as far as I understand, there are multiple ratchets between minimum verify and wide open and it should have slipped into one of those lesser ratchets.
Right now it sorta seems more likely to me that the restraint ratchet mechanism itself broke somehow. I think people are right to suspect some really shotty maintenance, but hopefully we'll get a real, robust investigation with actual answers eventually.
Only legacy Cedar Fair parks put belts on their hypers as far as I'm aware. I assume that's going to change now (whether or not it would have actually changed anything here).
The more I read about this and the more I hear from people with firsthand knowledge of the ride model, the more it is seeming like a complete failure of the restraint mechanism. How that happened and why it occurred are likely to be the most important questions in unraveling this mystery.
This is horrific, and the tragedy is paramount. But the details we do have are also so inexplicable - based on the existence of the photo (FWIW I think @Zachary’s shift to a link was the right compromise here) and the eyewitness reports, this happened at the very end of the ride. Trying to understand why a restraint failure would happen there and not earlier is extremely hard to wrap one’s head around.