What If Cedar Fair Hadn't Bought Paramount Parks

[harry580]

this is a what if question:
what if Viacom/cbs never sold the paramount parks to cedar fair, what would have happened.

I wonder if there were any plans for the 2007. I know paramount parks was considering building a water coaster themed to spongebob in kings island. Is it possible that rides based on the paramount released marvel films would been built at the park, or would never happen due to the universal marvel costract?, would transformers the ride 3d been built at the parks instead of universal?, I would also be interested to know about any other plans paramount had with the parks before the sale to cedar fair/six flags

 

[rswashdc]

Probably in the long run it would have been a better outcome, than what is essentially a large soulless professional amusement park operator company in SF. Tying parks to themes, media, and such gives them purpose and direction, even if not executed that well.

In this alternate reality, maybe legacy SF has to get its DC theming act together and doesn't have the market space to go downhill so fast. UP may be be under totally different ownership - maybe Discovery or similar.

 

[paintervision]

Is it possible that rides based on the paramount released marvel films would been built at the park, or would never happen due to the universal marvel costract?, would transformers the ride 3d been built at the parks instead of universal?

Paramount was only the distributors for the MCU's first couple of movies, excluding the Hulk film from 2008 (which was Universal due to previously held rights). Paramount didn't own the movies outright, that was all under Marvel Studios.

Also: Universal's contract for IOA stipulated they had sole use of the Marvel name in the US for lands/rides east of the Mississippi river, and exclusive rights for the Marvel name in US theme parks*. Due to the Universal/Marvel contract (from Universal's MCA days), Disney to this day still can't use "Marvel" in the land or promotion for Avengers Campus at DCA, which is why it's named this. While the Paramount parks could have sold merchandise or used Marvel characters for promotion (same as Disney later did), it would likely be temporary.

As far as Transformers, who knows. It debuted as a Universal ride in Singapore in 2011 first, so likely the ride was under development for 4-5 years prior. It was designed to fit into very small footprints for Singapore and Hollywood; the Florida version came later when an Exec asked if it could be fast-tracked for USF to open before Diagon Alley. It's possible Paramount Parks could have taken those rights, but it would have been entirely different ride - probably just a stand-alone coaster as that was Paramount Parks' style outside the kids areas.

*Sidenote: Yes, Paramount had Canada's Wonderland and I guess it could be argued that the Universal contract didn't extend there. I can't see them going against it though; and Wonderland was not seen as the megapark it is today under Paramount - so it's unlikely they would have spent time or money on this for a single park, knowing they couldn't clone it to other parks like King's Island, which was definitely the flagship park in the chain at the time.

 

[Mushroom]

Probably in the long run it would have been a better outcome, than what is essentially a large soulless professional amusement park operator company in SF. Tying parks to themes, media, and such gives them purpose and direction, even if not executed that well.

I completely disagree. Paramount’s ownership of the parks was the epitome of soulless and directionless. The parks’ original themes were ripped out haphazardly for attractions that lazily promoted Paramount’s films with little regard for how those attractions fit in the park. Paramount sacrificed the charm of the parks for disjointed movie-themed attractions and cheap thrill rides. Meanwhile, they invested far too little in park upkeep, saddling many of the former Paramount parks with poor reputations that they’re still working to get out of.

Adding rides themed to movies was not “direction”, and if anything, betrayed a lack of a cohesive vision for the parks. It was no different than legacy Six Flags’ habit of dropping DC-themed rides where thematically appropriate attractions once stood.

I see absolutely no evidence that the current Six Flags is on the same path as the old Paramount parks. Things like cutting events, shortening calendars, and closing parks suck — but they don’t signal a lack of direction, IMO. And so far, I wouldn’t characterize most of what they’ve done to the parks as “soulless”. Don’t forget that things like KD’s most recent Jungle X expansion happened under the Six Flags banner. And it remains to be seen whether the new regional GM model actually gives each park’s regional leader more decision-making power with less corporate bureaucracy.

I’m not happy with some of the changes happening under SF, don’t get me wrong, but most of those changes seem minor so far. They certainly pale in comparison to the cheap, directionless, neglectful, irreverent management of the parks under Paramount.

 

[GAcoaster]

Paramount was selling the parks one way or another. Had Dick Kinzle and Cedar Fair not bought them they would have been acquired by private equity (like Blackstone) and been bled to death like they did to the Busch Parks.

When CF bought them everyone said it was a horrible fit, CF over paid for them, and the whole company would go bankrupt. They managed to integrate them into the CF model, make them profitable and grow attendance (under Ouimet’s helm). They weren’t perfect, and there were growing pains but they survived.

 

[bill s]

2024: Paramount Parks merges with Six Flags.

 

[Thriller]

Cedar fair, as flawed as they currently are, actually saved these parks.

Paramount absolutely desecrated these parks, especially Kings, Dominion and Carowinds. They plopped down uninterest IP theme rides throughout the park with little regard to the cohesion of the theme of the area almost everything they installed was low quality , except flight of fear.

They are one of the big reasons attendance is so low these days. They ripped out theaters, the train the cable skyway the dark rides. All the things that non-thrill riders liked to do. They totally chased off those customers.

Now Cedar fair has done nothing to reverse that. They still continue to only install attract attractions for thrill riders and little children. But at least they install better quality attractions with cohesive theme.


It has taken a lot of work at Kings Dominion to undo all the damage. The Paramount did. The only Paramount I saw left are the stunt coaster and the sky coaster soon to be leaving.

The park looks the best it ever has since the Taft days. The Taft days were better, but this is the best it looks, since Paramount tried to destroy it.

 

[AIR]

Cedar fair, as flawed as they currently are, actually saved these parks.

Paramount absolutely desecrated these parks, especially Kings, Dominion and Carowinds. They plopped down uninterest IP theme rides throughout the park with little regard to the cohesion of the theme of the area almost everything they installed was low quality , except flight of fear.

I don't know, Volcano: the Blast Coaster was pretty awesome.

And I personally think Flight of Fear is dogshit but that's just me.

 

[paintervision]

When CF bought them everyone said it was a horrible fit, CF over paid for them, and the whole company would go bankrupt. They managed to integrate them into the CF model, make them profitable and grow attendance (under Ouimet’s helm). They weren’t perfect, and there were growing pains but they survived.

Some of that was anger over the closure of Geuaga Lake, which happened right as the Paramount Parks were being integrated into the chain. They picked up a bunch of debt and specifically for GL, priorities shifted towards building up Cedar Point and Kings Island as the two big parks in Ohio.

Kinzel wanted King's Island but they wouldn't outright sell that park without the whole chain. It was a move that made everyone scratch their heads at the time, but they picked up some parks that were underperforming in the package - including Carowinds and Canada's Wonderland, both which had room to grow and flourish under a new direction.

They also started extending seasons during this time, which the Cedar Fair parks never had a strong Spring Break business outside of Knotts; KI, KD, CGA, and Carowinds were all positioned to get more Spring business being in locations with better weather, while Wonderland is directly next to a big city that isn't as afraid of the cold AND has enough of a local workforce to support a Christmas event unlike Cedar Point, for example. Some corporate offices like payroll moved down near Carowinds (which was Paramount Parks HQ IIRC?) right away, too.

 

[warfelg]

Some of that was anger over the closure of Geuaga Lake, which happened right as the Paramount Parks were being integrated into the chain. They picked up a bunch of debt and specifically for GL, priorities shifted towards building up Cedar Point and Kings Island as the two big parks in Ohio.

You will never be able to convince me that GL’s demise was anything other than eliminating competition.

 

[bill s]

You will never be able to convince me that GL’s demise was anything other than eliminating competition.

Six Flags were the ones that built it up and sold it for bottom dollar.

 

[paintervision]

Six Flags were the ones that built it up and sold it for bottom dollar.

True and really it was SF that did the most damage. Geauga Lake was a small park with no need for five new coasters in such a short time, and all the expansion was unsustainable.

Had Cedar Fair removed a few coasters and fixed parts of the park, it could have been a Holiday World or Kentucky Kingdom-style park. Keep the focus more on wooden coasters and some family rides, do more private buyouts and company picnics, etc. Make it the companion park to Cedar Point that had something other than thrills to offer, and remove stuff like the 3-train B&M Floorless, flying coaster, and impulse coaster, etc. (Park was far overbuilt, and rarely saw crowds that warranted all that) That could have worked for the region. And that’s the direction taken with Wildwater Kingdom, which was a very nice part of the park - even though this also had some cuts from the original Phase 2 plans.

But, they went a different direction with it. Taking the time to establish GL as its own thing wasn’t a priority after buying five Paramount parks. I can’t say I blame them - but SF is as much to blame as Cedar Fair with the whole mess.

 

[harry580]

ok, back to the topic about paramount parks

I heard from a YouTuber few years ago that paramount parks (before being bought by cedar fair) was actually considered building a park in china so if cedar fair hadn't bought paramount parks, they would have build it or maybe not

 

[wasteman]

Iirc there were still some plans for them to work on international parks even after the Cedar Fair buyout. I think that park falling through was unrelated

 

[harry580]

well, those parks are licensed, not built by them (paramount)

theres so many thins that would have been for paramount parks, maybe paramount parks would take a risk and build a South Park section (I mean, there are south park plushies in the game areas of the parks)

 

[harry580]

I got another thought, if paramount hadnt sold the parks to cedar fair, I guess this means paramount removing the hanna barbera ip thing that started with rebranding hanna barbera land to nickelodeon universe at kings island will still continue to happen with kings dominion along with great america California merging kidzville and nickelodeon central into nickelodeon universe in 2007/2008 and canada wonderland replacing hanna barbera land with either nickelodeon expansion or maybe a new ip (stardust 2007 or sleepy hollow or spiderwick maybe) instead