I use to be a regular at this park loved it to death. But the company never saw reason to invest any major capital in this park. When I got my car and license; I started driving to Kings Dominion once a month. I understand that the company was once in a debt, but that was nearly 10 years ago. Not sure why the company hasn't invested in a big coaster, yet. It's been almost 20 years. The DMV region has enough people to pack the park as it did back in the early 2000s. So it's not like the company can say that "There isn't enough people in the geographic region to support such an addition". These same people drive the 2 hour ride down to Kings Dominion and the 2 hour ride north to Hershey Park. If the company added a big coaster, everyone in Montgomery County, P.G. County, Washington DC, Charles County, and all the surrounding areas would flock back to the park.
Ways to Make SFA More Competitive
- Thread starter MikeLovesKD
- Start date
I agree with this, but it's still a fun park. They should at least put in a Raptor. One of the clones would be fine, fit the park well and take up little space. Of course it'll be overshadowed by the Raptor going into SFGAdv, but much closer to me and no tolls.
Why the company can't at least give Roar the RMC makeover is beyond my belief. It would seem as if that would be very inexpensive and still fun. They could at least try and make it as thrilling as Medusa RMC at Six Flags Mexico. Kings Dominion did this to Hurler and received positive reviews. This park sits on so much unused land. It's surprising that it's not as big as Kings Dominion or Great Adventure. So much more signature rides should be in this park; but the company continues to build clones of other rides. Not sure if they realized that, but most of the rides at SFA's competitor parks are signature attractions.
Harley Quinn Spinsanity is a good addition for teens and family. Gives the park a little competition against KD's Delirium. Over the years, many enthusiast have begged the company to theme the park a lot better than what they have. We got a small taste of this when they added Apocalypse. Coyote Creek has longed for another attraction. Until this day, Mind Eraser is the only coaster that sits over there. Maybe our RMC could extend past Mind Eraser and taken on an abandoned mine theme.
As we all know, there's farm land north of the Coyote Creek. Six Flags could always purchase the land. Keep some of the trees to give it the spooky woods feel. Imagine the night ride experiences on something of this level. It would literally crap on Twisted Timbers at Kings Dominion.
Harley Quinn Spinsanity is a good addition for teens and family. Gives the park a little competition against KD's Delirium. Over the years, many enthusiast have begged the company to theme the park a lot better than what they have. We got a small taste of this when they added Apocalypse. Coyote Creek has longed for another attraction. Until this day, Mind Eraser is the only coaster that sits over there. Maybe our RMC could extend past Mind Eraser and taken on an abandoned mine theme.
As we all know, there's farm land north of the Coyote Creek. Six Flags could always purchase the land. Keep some of the trees to give it the spooky woods feel. Imagine the night ride experiences on something of this level. It would literally crap on Twisted Timbers at Kings Dominion.
Six Flags America needs a massive makeover beyond a major coaster if it wants to be draw for guests. Frankly, Six Flags should be embarrassed with how little they can charge for memberships and season passes with the product they provide. They actually make less than most the local water parks and other small scale attractions in the area. A well run park based in the DMV should be able to get double or triple what Six Flags is getting for season passes considering how much money there is locally.
This park probably needs new owners, a $75-100M investment in rides and theming, an overhaul of marketing and pricing strategy, and an overhaul of the customer experience. Then maybe it could compete with Kings Dominion, Hershey, and Busch Gardens for customers beyond its small customer base.
Um, I really, really do not want Roar turned into an RMC. It's an excellent wooden coaster. Let's not take away another one. If they want to add a ground-up RMC, that would be great, but no conversions.
^^-- I like RoaR a lot. I wouldn't hate it being converted, but adding a new, good coaster would be a lot better.
SFA would be a really adequate park if they could move the whole place to some park desert where they really need it.
I went twice last year and was considering going to HitP on New years Day. I wasn't feeling it and decided twice was already plenty. The place is much harder to get to than BGW for me despite being about the same miles, since I don't take it seriously enough to get there early in the day when the traffic isn't getting worse by the minute. As to bad people, they probably go on Saturday with the GP mobs. The only time I've wondered a bit was last time I went on a Sat. night, 20+ years ago.
Regarding expansion, the property is getting more valuable as the years pass. My theory is that's why they don't want to put in a new coaster with the idea of it lasting 30 years. Used coasters don't have that problem and flats are easier to move. Also it does make money without that kind of risk.
SFA would be a really adequate park if they could move the whole place to some park desert where they really need it.
I went twice last year and was considering going to HitP on New years Day. I wasn't feeling it and decided twice was already plenty. The place is much harder to get to than BGW for me despite being about the same miles, since I don't take it seriously enough to get there early in the day when the traffic isn't getting worse by the minute. As to bad people, they probably go on Saturday with the GP mobs. The only time I've wondered a bit was last time I went on a Sat. night, 20+ years ago.
Regarding expansion, the property is getting more valuable as the years pass. My theory is that's why they don't want to put in a new coaster with the idea of it lasting 30 years. Used coasters don't have that problem and flats are easier to move. Also it does make money without that kind of risk.
I went to SFA a bunch of times last season (I'm only about 45 minutes from it) and never encountered any "bad people". I don't even recall much in the way of line jumping, if any. Admittedly I mostly went on Sundays or weekdays. I do have a friend who went on an especially busy day and the number of balls being bounced around and sometimes hitting him was comical, though. They have way too many ball prizes.
I agree with rswashdc. The park could benefit from independent ownership. However, unless the new owners wanted to pay Six Flags for branding, they would lose the Looney Tunes/DC Comics theme. I know this sounds left field; but I'm currently trying to develop a social media app. If it becomes popular and I become rich, I'll probably buy SFA and do a much better job with it than Six Flags.
Even without the Warner Bros branding; the park could brand something from NASA and create an alien ride. Or look to companies like Netflix and create rides based off some of their more intensive shows/films. Of course I'm just throwing out examples, so don't take me too serious. But I do have a question. It does state online that Six Flags offers branding to others companies.
Quote:
The Six Flags brand is well-known throughout the world. We can license our brand and utilize our operational expertise to bring Six Flags thrills to markets outside of North America. Currently we have signed agreements with partners in Dubai, China and Saudi Arabia.
Does this mean that they would only license their name and theme to companies outside the United States? What if a private company wanted to build their own park in the United States or purchase an existing Six Flags park and keep the current license agreement with Warner/DC Comics. Would it be possible for someone to buy SFA and do this?
Even without the Warner Bros branding; the park could brand something from NASA and create an alien ride. Or look to companies like Netflix and create rides based off some of their more intensive shows/films. Of course I'm just throwing out examples, so don't take me too serious. But I do have a question. It does state online that Six Flags offers branding to others companies.
Quote:
The Six Flags brand is well-known throughout the world. We can license our brand and utilize our operational expertise to bring Six Flags thrills to markets outside of North America. Currently we have signed agreements with partners in Dubai, China and Saudi Arabia.
Does this mean that they would only license their name and theme to companies outside the United States? What if a private company wanted to build their own park in the United States or purchase an existing Six Flags park and keep the current license agreement with Warner/DC Comics. Would it be possible for someone to buy SFA and do this?
In my opinion, while their operations are slow, their customer service is the friendliest and most helpful in the region.
While I like SFA, myself, I could do with less Looney Tunes and DC Comics theming.
That's because the company has never used it on an intense level. I don't know if it has something to do with budget or approval from Warner Bros. I'll set an example of a cool theme that SFA could do with a D.C Comic attraction.
Let's take a batman villain like Scarecrow. I'd knock down Batwing and build an RMC using the wooded area over there. The name of the ride is Scarecrow's: Fear Coaster. I'd give the queue area some sort of an abandoned haunted carnival theme. Loading station is in some sort of dark barn. The ride leaves the station as normal and does the whole Twisted Timber style drop, with a few tight turns and bunny hops. Eventually it comes to creepy looking shed like Mystic Timbers at Kings Island. You'll hear Dr. Crane say some creepy spiel along with some fog to go with it. Maybe a jump scare or two. Eventually you turn a corner and approach another lift. Only this time you do the whole Lightning Rod Dollywood launch and shoot up the lift. You'd go through a few more tight turns and flips, before returning to the loading station.
Here are videos of both Twisted Timbers, Lightning Rod and Mystic Timbers. Just focus on the Twisted Timbers style drop, Mystic Timbers shed and Lightning Rod Launch
Just imagine the intense night rides on a theme of this level. I'd say they could get it done spending at least 25 or 35 million. It would easily receive awards as one of the best wooden coaster to ride in the night in the mid-Atlantic region. The first drop doesn't have to be all that tall. RMC has proved that the twist and speed is all you need. First drop could be 135 to 145 feet. That's more than enough speed coming down that drop to send you through at least 3 to 4 twist before getting to the Dr. Crane's shed.
Let's take a batman villain like Scarecrow. I'd knock down Batwing and build an RMC using the wooded area over there. The name of the ride is Scarecrow's: Fear Coaster. I'd give the queue area some sort of an abandoned haunted carnival theme. Loading station is in some sort of dark barn. The ride leaves the station as normal and does the whole Twisted Timber style drop, with a few tight turns and bunny hops. Eventually it comes to creepy looking shed like Mystic Timbers at Kings Island. You'll hear Dr. Crane say some creepy spiel along with some fog to go with it. Maybe a jump scare or two. Eventually you turn a corner and approach another lift. Only this time you do the whole Lightning Rod Dollywood launch and shoot up the lift. You'd go through a few more tight turns and flips, before returning to the loading station.
Here are videos of both Twisted Timbers, Lightning Rod and Mystic Timbers. Just focus on the Twisted Timbers style drop, Mystic Timbers shed and Lightning Rod Launch
Just imagine the intense night rides on a theme of this level. I'd say they could get it done spending at least 25 or 35 million. It would easily receive awards as one of the best wooden coaster to ride in the night in the mid-Atlantic region. The first drop doesn't have to be all that tall. RMC has proved that the twist and speed is all you need. First drop could be 135 to 145 feet. That's more than enough speed coming down that drop to send you through at least 3 to 4 twist before getting to the Dr. Crane's shed.
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I feel like that ride would be every bit as good without the Scarecrow IP, honestly.
A lot of people don't give a shit about comic book character tie-ins on a roller coaster.
A lot of people don't give a shit about comic book character tie-ins on a roller coaster.
I have to say, I'm not a big fan of your ideas so far, MikeLovesKD. Knock down Batwing??? That ride is great. Yeah, it has terrible capacity, but catch it on a light crowd day and it's so fun.
I'm of the opinion that SFA doesn't actually need that much ride investment right now—they need guest experience improvements. When you really break it down, their collection isn't bad—especially considering they have an Intamin mega coaster as their headliner. I'd much rather see their money go to increasing staffing in guest experience capacities (sanitation and operations), improving training and oversight in food service roles, and renovating their restaurants, bathrooms, buildings around the park, etc.
I-95 is doing a lot of work for SFA right now—it's making a drive from DC to KD less and less desirable by the month. If SFA could at least get their guest experience game up to good-CF-levels (a bar KD often doesn't even meet), I think SFA could successfully raise prices and draw in a market segment they've historically struggled with.
And yes, I know that this strategy is antithetical to the standard Six Flags playbook—but I do think SFA's location affords it the ability to be SO much more than a normal Six Flags property. If there was ever a market with the desire and fiscal environment required to sustain a large, charming, pleasant, family-friendly "great American amusement park," it's DC.
I-95 is doing a lot of work for SFA right now—it's making a drive from DC to KD less and less desirable by the month. If SFA could at least get their guest experience game up to good-CF-levels (a bar KD often doesn't even meet), I think SFA could successfully raise prices and draw in a market segment they've historically struggled with.
And yes, I know that this strategy is antithetical to the standard Six Flags playbook—but I do think SFA's location affords it the ability to be SO much more than a normal Six Flags property. If there was ever a market with the desire and fiscal environment required to sustain a large, charming, pleasant, family-friendly "great American amusement park," it's DC.
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Crunchewy. Batwing is an old coaster. The Vekoma Flying Dutchman don't get a lot of praise like they use to. B&M Wing Coasters are a lot more fun.
Zachary. SFA doesn't need that much ride investment? Are you serious? Superman was good back when it was the tallest coaster in the mid-atlantic region. For a while, it's competitor parks had nothing to rival it. Even though KD was more fun, they didn't have anything to compete with the 205 ft. Superman. Same with Bush Gardens Williamsburg. Even when Griffon was built, the 200 ft drop felt a lot different on a dive style floorless coaster, as compared to Superman's cruising 70 mph drop. Griffon was suspense, but Superman was pure enjoyable speed. Once KD constructed I-305, it was the crowd drawer for the DMV region. For a little while, I-305 received criticism for the breaks on the first drop. So Superman still held a bit of bragging rights, despite it being 100 ft. smaller. Once they removed the breaks on I-305, it was game over for SFA. Reaching a speed of 90 mph clearly helped it surpass the Man of Steel. The 2009 season was my last season giving SFA my money.
It's hard to headline rides that have been there for nearly 20 years. Especially ones that experienced a lot of downtime as compared to KD's marvelous up-time record for most of their rides. As for the Scarecrow theme; I think people would love it. Six Flags has an tendency to use a lot of the same hero and villain names. There's tones of cool villains and hero's that could be used to create cool themes. Scarecrow just matches the whole fear element and would tie in nice during Fright Fest.
Zachary. SFA doesn't need that much ride investment? Are you serious? Superman was good back when it was the tallest coaster in the mid-atlantic region. For a while, it's competitor parks had nothing to rival it. Even though KD was more fun, they didn't have anything to compete with the 205 ft. Superman. Same with Bush Gardens Williamsburg. Even when Griffon was built, the 200 ft drop felt a lot different on a dive style floorless coaster, as compared to Superman's cruising 70 mph drop. Griffon was suspense, but Superman was pure enjoyable speed. Once KD constructed I-305, it was the crowd drawer for the DMV region. For a little while, I-305 received criticism for the breaks on the first drop. So Superman still held a bit of bragging rights, despite it being 100 ft. smaller. Once they removed the breaks on I-305, it was game over for SFA. Reaching a speed of 90 mph clearly helped it surpass the Man of Steel. The 2009 season was my last season giving SFA my money.
It's hard to headline rides that have been there for nearly 20 years. Especially ones that experienced a lot of downtime as compared to KD's marvelous up-time record for most of their rides. As for the Scarecrow theme; I think people would love it. Six Flags has an tendency to use a lot of the same hero and villain names. There's tones of cool villains and hero's that could be used to create cool themes. Scarecrow just matches the whole fear element and would tie in nice during Fright Fest.
I like the ride that Batwing gives more, but that's just a matter of preference. They are both good. Classic Vekoma Flyers are on the endangered species list and it's awesome that we have one to ride here. SFA having Batwing is a huge plus for me and I'm really glad they fixed it last year. They easily could have said fuck it and torn it down, but they didn't. I give mad props to SFA for doing the right thing.
i305 is certainly a more intense ride, but Superman is still pretty intense and it is way more reridable for me. Also it has good to great airtime, depending on how fast it's running, something i305 doesn't have. i305's first turn, while quite the experience, prevents me from being able to ride it repeatedly. I actually find Superman's first hill more thrilling too. I come out of my seat on it even in the front row. i305 doesn't have that. Of course i305 gives an entirely different experience and it's fantastic in its own unique way. I love it. However I'm not sure you're right about i305 being a huge draw. It rarely has that long of a long line.
i305 is certainly a more intense ride, but Superman is still pretty intense and it is way more reridable for me. Also it has good to great airtime, depending on how fast it's running, something i305 doesn't have. i305's first turn, while quite the experience, prevents me from being able to ride it repeatedly. I actually find Superman's first hill more thrilling too. I come out of my seat on it even in the front row. i305 doesn't have that. Of course i305 gives an entirely different experience and it's fantastic in its own unique way. I love it. However I'm not sure you're right about i305 being a huge draw. It rarely has that long of a long line.
My mistake. I'm judging most of my facts on the busy days which are Saturdays. I305 on a Saturday is pretty packed. For all I know, Superman probably still is from SFA's attendance perspective. Then again, KD does draw more people so it may appear at times that I305 has more people waiting for it. HAUNT and FRIGHT FEST are definitely two different atmospheres. But I usually judge that one what I remember Fright Fest's attendance at versus KD's every year. So sorry if I sound biased at times.
The company would notice a huge increase in crowds if they invested some major capital in SFA. Ever since Snyder and Shapiro had bought the company, the park never received a fair chance. We lost more attractions than what we gained, under their corporate management. Yes the company was in debt, but there were still ride relocation that we could have received. SFNO's Batman: The Ride would have fit well here. Terry Prather(former GM) suggested that the ride be put at SFA. I remember asking him about it one time and he told me that exact thing. But as usual they found reason to skip over us. Then there was the Dark Knight indoor coaster. They skipped us. Then there was the Green Lantern stand up coaster. They skipped us on that too.
The company would notice a huge increase in crowds if they invested some major capital in SFA. Ever since Snyder and Shapiro had bought the company, the park never received a fair chance. We lost more attractions than what we gained, under their corporate management. Yes the company was in debt, but there were still ride relocation that we could have received. SFNO's Batman: The Ride would have fit well here. Terry Prather(former GM) suggested that the ride be put at SFA. I remember asking him about it one time and he told me that exact thing. But as usual they found reason to skip over us. Then there was the Dark Knight indoor coaster. They skipped us. Then there was the Green Lantern stand up coaster. They skipped us on that too.
Superman was never the highest drop in the Mid-Atlantic. Apollo's Chariot has a higher drop at 210' than both Superman and Griffon. How you can be forgetting one of the best coasters on the planet I'm not sure. I would argue that it is still the parks signature roller coaster over 20 years later. So the answer to how a ride can be the top attraction for 20 years is pretty simple, you have to build a damn good ride and BGW absolutely did that with AC.
Also I don't know that I've ever heard someone refer to KD as having a marvelous uptime record for most of their rides. In fact normally it's people complaining about how often they are not operating.
I never said it was the tallest in the mid-atlantic. If so, I didn't really mean it in that way. I was comparing it to parks that were closer. And yes, I do know of AC. Never rode it, but I went to Bush Gardens. And I'm sure if you asked most people what park they would rather go to on a hot Saturday, they'd say KD or BGW. Most of the DMV have had a lot of their fare share on Superman, Batwing and Joker's Jinx. You don't hear a lot of people talking about it anymore. And why is that? Because they are older rides. Until this day I still here people talk about how they miss Hyper-Sonic and boy was that a long time ago. I probably rode it twice, it's whole history. SFA's notable forgotten rides are Two-Face and Iron Eagle. Add the Astro World Twister ride if you want. A lot of people were looking forward to it, before the company found some way to ruin that.
Overall, it seems to me like the company has still been operating the way they always have. Giving most of their big coasters to the bigger parks. Even smaller ones that SFFT receives good treatment from the company when it came to big coasters. SFA still has not scene a big coaster in almost 20 years. RMC seems to be a popular and affordable upgrade for older wooden rides. Why Six Flags, has not considered SFA is beyond my belief.
Overall, it seems to me like the company has still been operating the way they always have. Giving most of their big coasters to the bigger parks. Even smaller ones that SFFT receives good treatment from the company when it came to big coasters. SFA still has not scene a big coaster in almost 20 years. RMC seems to be a popular and affordable upgrade for older wooden rides. Why Six Flags, has not considered SFA is beyond my belief.