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Feb 23, 2012
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RE: PR's Venice and New Wild Reserve

Can't say I like turning roman rapids into something else. Either keep the theme it has now, or scrap it entirely. I'd leave it as is because it is a major people-eater on hot, summer days and turning it into a lesser version would definitely lessen its popularity. It'd be kind of like a second Rhine River Cruise.

Don't get me wrong, I never really ride this anymore unless it is blazing outside, but the lines this thing can get sometimes go out of the queue building. Something like that shouldn't be reduced to a cruise attraction, in my opinion.

That's my only suggestion though, not bad ideas. I like the idea of the coliseum, I just don't know if it would work, and it probably wouldn't look great in the end. Nonetheless, something along the lines of what Nitro Racer has at WCUSA (small bleachers) but a little more ancient-looking sounds pretty cool.
 
Dec 23, 2011
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RE: Venice and New Wild Reserve

Original Post was rewritten and updated with an all new map which is much more clear and concise along with a new description of everything for a better understanding of the idea.
 
Apr 29, 2011
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Party Rocker said:
UGLY FADED BLUE ~ This is Roman Rapids. This ride can either stay the same with enhanced theming OR be converted to a peaceful relaxing gondola ride through the streets of Venice with enhanced theming. Is it possible to have one during the colder days and then transform it during the hotter days? Also, this includes the Rapids Gift Shop which will be relocated to the side more so that the queue and entrance is more visible if you walk up to it. The shop will also have improved theming.

I'd have to say no to this gondola ride concept. Having been to Venice and riding the real ones and even some fake ones at the Venetian Hotel in Vegas, I really don't see how this would be an exciting attraction for any theme park. There simply isn't enough room in that hamlet to recreate a gondola ride and there would be no thrill factor with it. Plus, it would have atrocious capacity because the pacing would be too slow.
 
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Unagi said:
I'd have to say no to this gondola ride concept. Having been to Venice and riding the real ones and even some fake ones at the Venetian Hotel in Vegas, I really don't see how this would be an exciting attraction for any theme park. There simply isn't enough room in that hamlet to recreate a gondola ride and there would be no thrill factor with it. Plus, it would have atrocious capacity because the pacing would be too slow.

Phantasialand in Germany has a ride similar to Roman Rapids but it is very slow, peaceful and nice and it works just fine and it was set-up the same way Roman Rapids is, they just need to turn off the rapids.

The goal is not nessacarily to be exciting but to be relaxing. Just like the train ride can be relaxing. They already have the ride set-up, so no more and no less space is needed. They just need to scrap the bars that create the rapids as well as re-theme the ride. There doesn't have to be a thrill factor. Not every ride has to have a thrill factor (Le Mans wasn't a "thrilling" ride exactly).

Capacity wouldn't be as bad. They could have more rafts in use at one time. Like I said, Phantasialand does it with one of their rides and capacity is just fine. When I get the name of the ride I'll post it.

EDIT: Turns out they either removed or relocated their ride; however check out this link to see pictures of what I was envisioning.
 
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Party Rocker said:
Phantasialand in Germany has a ride similar to Roman Rapids but it is very slow, peaceful and nice and it works just fine and it was set-up the same way Roman Rapids is, they just need to turn off the rapids.

Are you talking about River Quest? I've been on it and it is not the same at Roman Rapids. This rapids ride has multiple "drops" throughout the course. Definitely the most exciting rapids rides I've ever ridden.

The goal is not nessacarily to be exciting but to be relaxing. Just like the train ride can be relaxing. They already have the ride set-up, so no more and no less space is needed. They just need to scrap the bars that create the rapids as well as re-theme the ride. There doesn't have to be a thrill factor. Not every ride has to have a thrill factor (Le Mans wasn't a "thrilling" ride exactly).

The park already has a relaxing water ride with the Rhine River cruise. Add to that the skyride and train. BGW does not need another "chill" ride. And why even bring up Le Mans? That attraction is gone for a reason. It was boring, had low ridership, had crappy capacity when the park was busy, and the park needed a marquee attraction to anchor that section of the park.

Capacity wouldn't be as bad. They could have more rafts in use at one time. Like I said, Phantasialand does it with one of their rides and capacity is just fine. When I get the name of the ride I'll post it.

A real Venetian gondola ride is about 45 minutes and the max capacity of each seat about six people. Scaling that down for a park wouldn't work. Plus an authentic ride allows you to pass other gondolas in the canal going in the opposite direction. That wouldn't work in Roman Rapids set up.

EDIT: Turns out they either removed or relocated their ride; however check out this link to see pictures of what I was envisioning.

Is this the ride you're talking about that was in Phantasialand? I can see why it's gone! LOL

Now I'm not trying to knock down all your ideas for a Festa makeover because we all know it could use a major one. But you need to propose a new and exciting marquee attraction. A slow gondola ride won't do it.
 
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Unagi said:
Are you talking about River Quest? I've been on it and it is not the same at Roman Rapids. This rapids ride has multiple "drops" throughout the course. Definitely the most exciting rapids rides I've ever ridden.

No. River Quest is not the type of ride a was talking about; however renovating Roman Rapids to that kind of water-raft ride is a possibility.

Unagi said:
The park already has a relaxing water ride with the Rhine River cruise. Add to that the skyride and train. BGW does not need another "chill" ride. And why even bring up Le Mans? That attraction is gone for a reason. It was boring, had low ridership, had crappy capacity when the park was busy, and the park needed a marquee attraction to anchor that section of the park.

Not everyone that goes to BGW is a thrill seeker. If you want nothing but endless, mindless thrills just go to KD. BGW has more class than that. They are a family park that cater to ALL ages and types of riders. That includes people who just like to relax. Plus the Skyride and Train act more for transportation purposes than an actual ride.

Le Mans was not boring and from what I have seen from the early 2000's it constantly had a huge demand. The problem with Le Mans was that it was getting old. Those cars would be harder to maintain and think of the pollution they gave off. It was a very popular ride that I am sure many forum members agree they would like to of had it stay. However, when you have an aging ride and it has been a few years since your last major attraction, your going to fit in the newest thing.

The park had Imaginique and the Royal Palace Theater shows as it's anchor attraction; not much more is needed.

Unagi said:
A real Venetian gondola ride is about 45 minutes and the max capacity of each seat about six people. Scaling that down for a park wouldn't work. Plus an authentic ride allows you to pass other gondolas in the canal going in the opposite direction. That wouldn't work in Roman Rapids set up.

Pardon my mistake, I was not referring to a real Venetian gondola ride. I meant removing the rapids from the ride; keeping the same rafts that hold I believe 6 people as well, just having a current push the raft along creating a peaceful ride. Plus, with the push for the gardens a peaceful relaxing ride through some scenic gardens would make sense. They don't need to pass each other.

Unagi said:
Is this the ride you're talking about that was in Phantasialand? I can see why it's gone! LOL

I think you should add a disclaimer here. Those are your personal feelings and thoughts towards that type of ride and does not reflect a general opinion of the GP. I honestly think you are pushing the park to take out whatever it can and replace it with coasters. Since when did thrills become more important than being a park for all ages? How come the park can't have like 25 thrilling rides and 25 relaxing rides? Go 50/50? Why is everything about thrills?

The park can market this renovation like they did with Hastings to Ireland. Technically it would be an all new themed hamlet. The addition of Venice. That in itself can be very appealing to many people. Plus the major attraction would be the Italian Stables as well as the special events held in the special events park I mapped out.

Unagi said:
Now I'm not trying to knock down all your ideas for a Festa makeover because we all know it could use a major one. But you need to propose a new and exciting marquee attraction. A slow gondola ride won't do it.

Yes Festa needs a makeover BUT a new and exciting attraction isn't 1) always thrilling and 2) not really necessary when the hamlet as a whole can be advertised as an addition to the park and something new to check out.

I do apologize if I seem like I am pushing to hard for this; but to me it seems like your opinion is based on your demand for thrills where my opinion is based on trying to balance out thrills vs chill rides. For a person who is not too fond of heights and fast circular movement, there isn't much too do ride wise. Europe in the Air was supposed to be a chill ride for those who aren't fond of thrills. Unfortunately the ride turned out worse than expected and it really doesn't seem to appeal to anyone except a very few.

I think if the park could find a way to add more chill rides and balance out the thrills, they would truly be able to say there is something for everyone or fun for the whole family. Right now, they cater mostly to either really young children or thrill seekers. What about those in-betweeners who are too old for the kid rides but too intimidated by the thrills?
 
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Party Rocker said:
Not everyone that goes to BGW is a thrill seeker. If you want nothing but endless, mindless thrills just go to KD. BGW has more class than that. They are a family park that cater to ALL ages and types of riders. That includes people who just like to relax. Plus the Skyride and Train act more for transportation purposes than an actual ride.

Look at all the last major installations in the park. They've ALL been thrill rides. It's what is expected of the park and putting in a tame ride wouldn't go over well with the general public.

Le Mans was not boring and from what I have seen from the early 2000's it constantly had a huge demand. The problem with Le Mans was that it was getting old. Those cars would be harder to maintain and think of the pollution they gave off. It was a very popular ride that I am sure many forum members agree they would like to of had it stay. However, when you have an aging ride and it has been a few years since your last major attraction, your going to fit in the newest thing.

Sorry but you're wrong there. I've gone to this park every year it's been in existence and I have personally witnessed its popularity deteriorate over the years up until it's removal. It was not a big draw during it's latter years. I myself stopped riding it in the late 1990s. I didn't ride it again until 2006 and I did so only to see the construction markers for Griffon throughout it's course. I went on a couple busy Spring Saturdays that year and the queue wasn't even 1/4 full.

The park had Imaginique and the Royal Palace Theater shows as it's anchor attraction; not much more is needed.

That was NOT an anchor attraction as it had a very limited summer run as performances were only done at night. Had it performed the whole year and did multiple shows per day then maybe it would've been considered that.

Pardon my mistake, I was not referring to a real Venetian gondola ride. I meant removing the rapids from the ride; keeping the same rafts that hold I believe 6 people as well, just having a current push the raft along creating a peaceful ride. Plus, with the push for the gardens a peaceful relaxing ride through some scenic gardens would make sense. They don't need to pass each other.

It wouldn't look right to have a whole new hamlet themed to Venice and have circular rafts instead of Venetian-style gondolas.

I think you should add a disclaimer here. Those are your personal feelings and thoughts towards that type of ride and does not reflect a general opinion of the GP. I honestly think you are pushing the park to take out whatever it can and replace it with coasters.

I'm not doing that at all. Just looking at this from a business perspective. Thrills bring people through the gates, not tame rides.

Since when did thrills become more important than being a park for all ages? How come the park can't have like 25 thrilling rides and 25 relaxing rides? Go 50/50? Why is everything about thrills?

Thrill rides are ALWAYS more important than tame rides. Those are the ones that actually BRING people through the gates. From a marketing standpoint thrill rides are these easiest ones to sell. If the park announced a complete retheme of Festa into Venice and announced no new exciting ride to go with it will leave people scratching their heads.

The park can market this renovation like they did with Hastings to Ireland. Technically it would be an all new themed hamlet. The addition of Venice. That in itself can be very appealing to many people. Plus the major attraction would be the Italian Stables as well as the special events held in the special events park I mapped out.

Can't compare these two because they opened a thrill ride in Ireland with Corkscrew Hill.

Yes Festa needs a makeover BUT a new and exciting attraction isn't 1) always thrilling and 2) not really necessary when the hamlet as a whole can be advertised as an addition to the park and something new to check out.

Adding a tame ride would create some interest but not demand. Again, look at the park's last major installations. They've all been thrill rides and one was included with the retheme of Hastings into Killarney. Its their business plan and it's what they would continue to do with future installations and changes.

The only park company that could get away with doing something like this is Disney.

I do apologize if I seem like I am pushing to hard for this; but to me it seems like your opinion is based on your demand for thrills where my opinion is based on trying to balance out thrills vs chill rides.

Again, I'm looking at this from a business perspective.

I think if the park could find a way to add more chill rides and balance out the thrills, they would truly be able to say there is something for everyone or fun for the whole family. Right now, they cater mostly to either really young children or thrill seekers.
What about those in-betweeners who are too old for the kid rides but too intimidated by the thrills?

I see your point here but with your last question I really don't think a tame water ride would satisfy the void with those "in-betweeners". You need to come up with something more exciting than that.

Also, Venice is a festive city that is world-reknowned for its Carnival celebration. Maybe you can think of a themed attraction around that concept that would have marketability and a good selling point. Or even a themed dark ride to Poveglia Island, which is ridiculously haunted.
 

netdvn

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The big problem with this setup is that there still isn't an anchor attraction to draw people back to the area. You have a slower, less wet version of Rapids, a longer queue for Apollo, access to more animals (which is a good thing IMO but not enough to draw people back there), and a new dead-end pathway.

The events area looks like a perfect spot for a new ride. Stick one there. Only problem with that is the park loses a location for a HOS maze. Seems like a reasonable trade-off for a major coaster/dark ride.

The new ride doesn't have to be a major thrill ride. Plenty of parks have major non-thrill rides that still draw people (Disney). It just has to be a major ride.

What about those in-betweeners who are too old for the kid rides but too intimidated by the thrills?
Those kids can stick with the bumper cars, swings, and Battering Ram. Those kids generally like Rapids the way it is anyway.
 
Dec 23, 2011
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netdvn said:
The big problem with this setup is that there still isn't an anchor attraction to draw people back to the area. You have a slower, less wet version of Rapids, a longer queue for Apollo, access to more animals (which is a good thing IMO but not enough to draw people back there), and a new dead-end pathway.

The events area looks like a perfect spot for a new ride. Stick one there. Only problem with that is the park loses a location for a HOS maze. Seems like a reasonable trade-off for a major coaster/dark ride.

The new ride doesn't have to be a major thrill ride. Plenty of parks have major non-thrill rides that still draw people (Disney). It just has to be a major ride.

What about those in-betweeners who are too old for the kid rides but too intimidated by the thrills?
Those kids can stick with the bumper cars, swings, and Battering Ram. Those kids generally like Rapids the way it is anyway.

The reasoning for a Venice canal themed Roman Rapids is because of a few reasons. First, it will make the attraction more appealing during colder, rainier days and not just hot days. It can also be relaxing for hot days and still be quite popular. They can rename and retheme the ride and it can be marketed as a brand new ride. In fact in law, one aspect of a product has to change for it to be allowed to be marketed as new or improved. An example would be if a company had a new design on their soda bottles. They can market it as a brand new product. Same thing with applies here. New theme, new name, new ride essentially and you can market that to the GP and I honestly think the GP wouldn't give it a second though and the attraction would become quite popular.

If you wish to keep Roman Rapids the same, I am fine with it the way it is. I only mentioned changing it as a way to market a new ride and to change things up.

The queue for Apollo's wouldn't nessacarily be longer. It will have a new entrance and with the new space added to the queue, new and detailed theming will be added much like transforming Big Bad Wolf's queue into Verbolten's queue type of deal.

The stables can be reduced slightly to make room for new shops, etc. so it wouldn't be just those. Also, it really isn't a dead end pathway. If you look closely, the pathway would create a loop. You go into Venice on one side of DaVinci's Gardens and you come out of the Stables on the others side, your practically don't miss a single thing while still getting to do a whole lot.

If a rethemed, renamed Roman Rapids is not enough to be marketed as a new ride and you really think the GP won't check it out; You can turn the Italy Special Events park I created into a Coliseum and have a brand new show. That way, you can have space for a maze, just like Catacombs but Italian style :p

I was not talking about kids when it comes to in-betweeners. I was referring to actual adults who don't enjoy thrills but cant ride the little kids rides. Think about grandparents who don't enjoy thrills but who are more for scenery and chill rides.
 

netdvn

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The reasoning for a Venice canal themed Roman Rapids is because of a few reasons. First, it will make the attraction more appealing during colder, rainier days and not just hot days. It can also be relaxing for hot days and still be quite popular. They can rename and retheme the ride and it can be marketed as a brand new ride.

I'd rather see a new anchor over changing out Rapids. Rapids should just get an enhanced theme (props, buildings, etc).

The stables can be reduced slightly to make room for new shops, etc. so it wouldn't be just those. Also, it really isn't a dead end pathway. If you look closely, the pathway would create a loop. You go into Venice on one side of DaVinci's Gardens and you come out of the Stables on the others side, your practically don't miss a single thing while still getting to do a whole lot.
I was looking more toward Apollo, not the stables until I realized that would still be the ride's exit :D

If a rethemed, renamed Roman Rapids is not enough to be marketed as a new ride and you really think the GP won't check it out; You can turn the Italy Special Events park I created into a Coliseum and have a brand new show. That way, you can have space for a maze, just like Catacombs but Italian style
I think that area would be better fit with a new anchor attraction. Move your Venice Rapids idea indoors. It'll still be a relaxing ride, perfect for all kinds of weather, and suitable for everyone. Hell even an Antarctica-style attraction with a Venetian theme would be awesome. I'd rather have a 5-star attraction that can stay open year round over a sub-par maze during HOS any day.

The park still has the under-utilized Festhaus park for special events.

I was not talking about kids when it comes to in-betweeners. I was referring to actual adults who don't enjoy thrills but cant ride the little kids rides. Think about grandparents who don't enjoy thrills but who are more for scenery and chill rides.
That's where the dark ride comes in. It's a brand new major anchor attraction that's perfect for people of all ages. To kill multiple birds with one stone, you could easily fit a nice coaster back there that runs to the river and back.
 
Dec 23, 2011
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netdvn said:
I think that area would be better fit with a new anchor attraction. Move your Venice Rapids idea indoors. It'll still be a relaxing ride, perfect for all kinds of weather, and suitable for everyone. Hell even an Antarctica-style attraction with a Venetian theme would be awesome.

This. I'm perfectly fine with that.
 
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Honestly, I'd rather see Pompeii get a couple million dollars than see a new ride or even a new country in the next few years. So much untapped potential! Imagine if it was even half the length of Splash Mountain or Dudley Do-Rights. It could be the park's biggest attraction!
 
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