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Dec 23, 2011
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So I have noticed that more so recently, people have mentioned things that should be taken away. Zimmy felt that London Rocks shouldn't return and nothing should take its place leaving an empty theater. Others have said Europe in the Air should not come back with or without a replacement. So I was thinking at what point do you really take away everything?

Guests are paying near $75 to get into the park, even with a pass that price is higher but you get more. If you start taking away things without replacing them, doesn't that take away from the value of the price?

Since people love examples, let's say McDonalds sells a $5 meal that includes a burger, fries, and a drink. People keep complaining about how terrible the fries are. That they should just get rid of them. So they decide to get rid of the fries but they still keep the price or even raise it to $5.50 the following year.

From a business viewpoint, sure it looks like your saving money and possibly making even more of a profit now. But from a customer viewpoint, it looks bad, in my opinion. Your taking more money and taking away stuff at the same time. It seems, quite greedy actually.

Even for a ride so hated like Europe in the Air, everyone still freaked out and got upset. I watched some families run up to the ride and walk away confused and disappointed, some friends said they were upset. People even said it looked really bad for the park.

So the question goes, to have it, or not to have it? What is the right choice?

I personally feel you shouldn't take away any rides or shows without them being replaced. Those are your major headlines and the reason why people come to visit the park. Even the smaller ones or the hated ones, their still a headline, probably a smaller one but their still there. Same goes for the major restaurants. You can't take them away because they could be well-known and have reputations, like Trapper's or the Festhaus. I'd say if you want to start closing things that aren't a big part of the park, small snack stands, minor shops, and games  can be done without for a little while.

That doesn't mean shut down the Emporium for two years. It means, you can probably close the Wilkommen store and actually even convert it to a dinning area for one season. It's not as popular as other stores. Maybe combine stores and their merchandise? They could close Union Jacks and sell some of the same stuff at the Emporium. They could close that drink stand by the Wine Barrel photo op. It's not that popular and you have a restaurant right down the path.

SO where do you draw the line?
 

Mushroom

Getting aHEAD of myself
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Feb 12, 2011
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Although London Rocks is not my cup of tea, I disagree with Zimmy in saying that it should be removed. Even though it apparently has low satisfaction rates, it does pack a theater. It may not have brought in as many people as a ride, despite its immense budget, but the costliness of producing LR should be all the more reason for it to stay: to get an acceptable return investment on the project. Plus, it does add another major show to the park's lineup. Although I still have reservations for the new Festhaus show, I think it was a smart decision for the park go cut two older shows and replace it with a single new one.

EitA, on the other hand, has such low ridership that I can't imagine any reason why it is worth the cost of operations and maintenance. I certainly don't know of anyone who visits BGW solely because of EitA. If there are people who truly wouldn't visit BGW because they closed EitA permanently, then that population is probably small enough that the reduced operating costs would easily make up for it. The point that removing a ride decreases the value of the park is fair, I suppose, but EitA is generally considered one of BGW's worst rides. So if a ride had to be cut, it would be EitA, because fewer people would miss it than, say, DarKastle.

And EitA has been closed before, for that reason. And yes, there were people who approached the ride, expecting to ride it, only to be turned away. Yes, it looked bad on the park's behalf. But that's because it was obvious that there was a closed ride just sitting there. But the simulator is nestled back in such a tucked-away little corner of Killarney, that the park could easily conceal it to make it look like EitA was never there. Just plop a flower bed in front of the entrance, seal the doorway, and take down the sign. The building would just camouflage right in with the village and people would just think of it as the big brick wall beside Grogan's. Most people would probably forget there was once an attraction there and go about their day.
 
Feb 9, 2013
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Actually, LR, despite being out of its opening year and done with production will still cost a fortune to run. Royalties, especially for the type of music, and quantity of it in LR will cost a fortune to redeem each year. Any adjustment in production such as projection mapping, which they will most likely want done this year will also cost another fortune then there's staffing, which will be the least of money worries, but will still cost money. So considering guest satisfaction rates are beyond dismally(below Entwined level) low, there is no justifiable reason for bringing LR back this year.

And if you really wanted the globe to not sit empty, you could easily put a scrim over the stage and put Pirates 4D back in there. Just sayin'.

Other than that, I agree with you, Joe.
 
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Mushroom

Getting aHEAD of myself
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I think what people are forgetting, in regards to London Rocks, is ROI. The park spent boatloads of money on the initial setup for LR, which included extensive refurbishments to the theater. It was marketed as the addition for BGW in 2014. So how does it make sense to throw that money away and darken the theater again after one season? And how is paying for staffing and royalties different from any other show at the park? Maybe they should cut their older shows like Entwined and This Is Oktoberfest instead, and bring the number of shows in the Festhaus down to one... oh wait, they're doing that. Plus, cutting the past season's main attraction after just one season would look pretty bad for the park. This isn't KD where such there is such a small budget (and audience :p) for the shows that they can cut them after one season (Edge of Darkness, On Broadway, etc.).

In regards to the video mapping, if they actually decide to redo it again this year, they're just being dumb. That would certainly be a waste of budget, but that's not necessary to run the show, and thus shouldn't be part of the argument about keeping the show itself or not.
 

MAZ

Jan 30, 2014
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Although EitA is absolutely terrible(IMO), Simply closing it with no rhyme or reason is wrong. If I were to walk by and see a sign that read "Sorry for any inconvenience, but this attraction is closed to make room for something bigger and better." I would be happy as a clam.
 
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wombat96

avid coaster enjoyer
Sep 20, 2013
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Tear out everything in the EITA building and flatten out COS and you could make a fantastic dark ride like Antarctica Empire of the Penguin. (Loved the no track concept) Personally none of the cuts really affected me, EITA isn't that high of a priority to ride, Festhaus Kaffe is smack-dab in a main eating area, and I'm not sure if I've ever bought anything from Annie's. The park is cutting eateries and attractions that don't really affect my park experience or a regular GP experience.
 

Nicole

Administrator
Jul 22, 2013
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I don't think it is valid to compare a single McDs combo meal with the entire theme park. You might be able to draw an analogy between the entire menu and all of the attractions at BGW, but not a 3 component meal.

I also believe PR misrepresented the objection to EitA's being unceremoniously closed with no warning last season. The problem in general was not that it was gone, but rather that the park made no announcement and did not even put a sign out in front.

Not sure where the discussion of closing restaurants came from?

For what it is worth, I think there is something to be said for closing unpopular attractions, when the park is going through massive budget cuts.
 
Sep 29, 2009
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I would like to know how much the park makes off of Dining with Elmo. SeaWorld Orlando just cut one of their most popular dining shows. That was popular too, but I guess it was also too expensive to run. In my opinion, Ireland is nearly flat-lining at this point. I don't know what the park can do. I say Europe in the Air should be closed, and use the exit hallways as a 40th anniversary museum. It could be really cheap too. All they need is posters,timelines, and maybe display cases in the more open areas. This would hardly cost anything but running the AC.
 
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Thomas

Never Sane to Begin With
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Oct 24, 2009
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HiDqhhn.gif
 
Apr 9, 2013
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Guests are paying near $75 to get into the park, even with a pass that price is higher but you get more. If you start taking away things without replacing them, doesn't that take away from the value of the price?

How about asking why they charge so much in the first place? 75 dollars is insane for a local park, period. Couple that with the fact they have rides that need refurbishing (Darkastle), new rides that are lackluster, over-produced shows no one gives a crap about, and rides that are on their last legs. Just what am I paying 75 dollars for? The rarefied air in Williamsburg?

I have no line to draw, to answer the question up top. In a perfect world, all rides would be replaced with bigger and better attractions. But BGW has painted itself into a corner for reasons I can't quite comprehend. If that means they'll eventually dig themselves out by closing down ailing rides, then shut down half the park for all I care.
 

Zimmy

Nessie is lonely.
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Sep 28, 2013
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First, I plan to write a much longer and detailed response to the OP. That being said, Reggae makes a very valid point. Because I have had a season pass for so long I never really stop to consider the cost of daily admission. What is the value for money?

If you want a show, 75 Bucks will get you much better quality at the Sandler Center, Harrison Opera House, or Chrysler Hall. Hell that does not begin to address the amazing theater scene in NOVA.

If you are looking for food, 75 Bucks goes a long way period and lets be honest BGW's food is not that great.

Rides? Nice selection, but 75 bucks worth?

I would argue that it may not be good value for money.
 
Dec 23, 2011
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I would also like to mention, there is an opportunity where you can got to Guest Relations, leave the $75 and if you come back in two hours you get your money back. So basically, you get two free hours in the park with a refundable $75 deposit.

I was told the reason for that is so people can shop or eat at the restaurants without having to pay the admission price.
 
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May 6, 2014
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While I do not know specific labor costs of the park, they are rising. Remember when it was easy to find a fast food value meal for $3 or have a nice dinner in a restaurant for 2 for under $25? It is just not possible any more. Guests without passes frequently join me in the park and I can tell you the admission cost (and now almost $20 to park) are a concern and keep some away. I have mentioned before that a theme park is very labor intensive so they are especially hard hit.

I know minimum wage is a different topic, but it is related. I am not against an increase to minimum wage (I worked for $3.35/hour from the time I was 16 up through working in college), but future increases will only make things even harder for the park. I think the only way to swing a lower admission price is to fill the park with the very best food and entertainment to draw guests into spending more money inside of the park.
 
Jan 15, 2014
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I think part of the problem is the park attempts to do too much with its limited resources. Close EITA, use the operational budget for that ride, if there is one, and apply it to a re-theme for Curse of DarKastle or better shows. The fact that they have Celtic Fyre, which I would argue is the most popular shows at BGW, shows they have the ability to create great shows.
 
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Party Rocker said:
I would also like to mention, there is an opportunity where you can got to Guest Relations, leave the $75 and if you come back in two hours you get your money back. So basically, you get two free hours in the park with a refundable $75 deposit.

I was told the reason for that is so people can shop or eat at the restaurants without having to pay the admission price.

Please explain what this has to do with any of the discussion, besides being a (sort of) nice gesture from the park to people who want to stop in at BGW, pay for parking, and go shopping for 2 hours.
 
Dec 23, 2011
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It is related in a sense there are people who go to simply eat and shop. Probably very few, but there are some.
 
Aug 27, 2010
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Joe said:
In regards to the video mapping, if they actually decide to redo it again this year, they're just being dumb. That would certainly be a waste of budget, but that's not necessary to run the show, and thus shouldn't be part of the argument about keeping the show itself or not.

Projection mapping has upkeep cost. Shows run with that technology are not maintenance free.
 
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Feb 9, 2013
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Joe said:
And how is paying for staffing and royalties different from any other show at the park?

I forgot to address this a while back, but royalties are very much different for London Rocks. One, royalties don't all cost the same, British Rock is a very popular genre and is highly used around the world, meaning royalties to use that type of music are most likely enormous. The only other song the park uses during the main season with royalties even approaching a song in LR is most likely Dancing Queen. Not only that, but there are boatloads of those songs in LR, it's not like any other show where they maybe have to pay royalties for 2 or 3 songs at the most(sometimes, none at all). But with the bizarre and extreme music mixing in LR, you can take one of those royalty fees which is already most likely astronomically high, then multiply it 10+ times.
 
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