Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!

horsesboy

DarKoaster stalker
Advisory Panel
Silver Donor
Jun 16, 2013
4,519
10,065
250
I honestly disagree. Unfortunately it is in the job description of the baseline employee to be the front line representative, and if there is a lot of negativity thrown their way that is a symptom of things outside their control yes, but the impacts that has on staff morale and turnover rate are the kind of metrics the higher ups pay attention to and would start to notice "damn maybe there is a problem". Unfortunately unless anything is directly hitting their pockets, higher management won't do a thing, so surveys and complaint bins are the lowest on their list of priorities. If they are losing front line workers in droves and having to pay a lot more to get people to suffer through a shitty work environment dealing with customer complaints about problems that the management has created, then that starts to shift things.

Fundamentally yes it is an "asshole thing to do" to go off at an employee where it isn't their fault, but unfortunately that is really the only way these problems work their way back up the ladder over time.
While there may be some truth behind that logic you aren't looking at the full picture. A CDC report published last fall listed a 30% increase in suicide of retail workers and a 28% increase amongst fois service and hospitality workers. By occupation these were the second and third highest increase in the study which was looking at 2020 numbers the only higher group was medical workers. Among the causes listed in the study for the rate was the increasing hostile attitude of customers. Not only is being hostile to these employees for things beyond their control while hoping they quit and extremely crappy way of making to a company it may very well have significantly worse consequences then you know.
 

EdK

Feb 26, 2021
224
358
160
I have to agree with @belsaas. The logic @Ice that treating low level employees poorly will get them to quit and cause the park problems is horrible. Regardless of a given situation, you should always treat people respectfully (edit: fixed grammar). That's the core basis of a civilized society which I guess we are no longer a part of but we can still try.
 
Last edited:
Jul 14, 2019
603
1,121
210
I honestly disagree. Unfortunately it is in the job description of the baseline employee to be the front line representative, and if there is a lot of negativity thrown their way that is a symptom of things outside their control yes, but the impacts that has on staff morale and turnover rate are the kind of metrics the higher ups pay attention to and would start to notice "damn maybe there is a problem". Unfortunately unless anything is directly hitting their pockets, higher management won't do a thing, so surveys and complaint bins are the lowest on their list of priorities. If they are losing front line workers in droves and having to pay a lot more to get people to suffer through a shitty work environment dealing with customer complaints about problems that the management has created, then that starts to shift things.

Fundamentally yes it is an "asshole thing to do" to go off at an employee where it isn't their fault, but unfortunately that is really the only way these problems work their way back up the ladder over time.
As someone who was done front line support for years you couldn't be further from the truth. The correct way is to ask for a supervisor or manager. People on the front lines do not get paid enough to deal with people being like assholes , nor should they. Just because you are having a bad experience with something they CLEARLY have no control over DOES NOT give you the right to lash out at them. I think anyone that berates Ride Ops, Cashiers, etc should be ejected from the park immediately.
 
Nov 5, 2009
1,423
1,474
250
You had me until the last sentence. If you give employees shit for things out of their control, you are an asshole.

I have to agree with @belsaas. The logic @Ice that treating low level employees poorly will get them to quit and cause the park problems is horrible. Regardless of a given situation, you should always treat people respectively. That's the core basis of a civilized society which I guess we are no longer a part of but we can still try.

There's a difference between mistreating employees, being rude, and voicing your displeasure with stupid policies. Like I said, I try to mention the fact that I'm aware they aren't the ones responsible for the policies and I'm not upset with the individual employee. Sure, I'll answer questions on a survey and give feed back there, but if a line checker keeps getting complaints about guests wanting to bring beverages through the line on a hot day, that something they very much can tell their supervisor and easily can affect park policy.

Being honest doesn't make you an asshole.

EDIT:
In case it isn't clear, I am absolutely not advocating for being aggressive towards park employees.
 
Last edited:
Jul 14, 2019
603
1,121
210
There's a difference between mistreating employees, being rude, and voicing your displeasure with stupid policies. Like I said, I try to mention the fact that I'm aware they aren't the one's responsible for the policies and I'm not upset with the individual employee. Sure, I'll answer questions on a survey and give feed back there, but if a line checker keeps getting complaints about guests wanting to bring beverages through the line on a hot day, that something they very much can tell their supervisor and easily can affect park policy.

Being honest doesn't make you an asshole.

EDIT:
In case it isn't clear, I am absolutely not advocating for being aggressive towards park employees.
In what world does this not qualify as being rude or aggressive?
1656606584468.png
1656606620421.png
 
May 11, 2011
370
822
210
Northern VA
Interesting that those claiming to be okay with "giving lip" to the employees would be "Karens in the Wild" if the employee gave them that same lip right back.

I know its great to have disposable income and show up at a place to get service that you feel owed as a paying customer, however these attitudes are what keep the service industry understaffed, overworked, and in a place of mental instability. Its all cyclical, and yes policies with theme parks and other services need MUCH improvement, but the notion that privilege gives one the right to be nasty and demand things that a service industry employee simply cannot provide on their own is obnoxious, and feeds the bullshit that I see spewed by some of us on here. "Lip" is usually unwarranted, and complaints need to go to a manger, not a frontliner. These things drive people to leave, rightfully so, and the problem is thus exacerbated. Losing one staff member has tremendous effects nowadays, and its not people being "too soft or unable to take the heat"- its pure disrespect, which is the norm it seems these days, and that is fucking wrong.

Your park experience hinges a lot on your behavior. It's a circle. We are all a part of closing the loop that is woefully fractured as of late.
 
Last edited:
Nov 5, 2009
1,423
1,474
250
Interesting that those claiming to be okay with "giving lip" to the employees would be "Karens in the Wild" if the employee gave them that same lip right back.

Nice straw-man you've built.

I know its great to have disposable income and show up at a place to get service that you feel owed as a paying customer, however these attitudes are what keep the service industry understaffed, overworked, and in a place of mental instability. Its all cyclical, and yes policies with theme parks and other services need MUCH improvement, but the notion that privilege gives one the right to be nasty and demand things that a service industry employee simply cannot provide on their own is obnoxious, and feeds the bullshit that I see spewed by some of us on here. "Lip" is usually unwarranted, and complaints need to go to a manger, not a frontliner. These things drive people to leave, rightfully so, and the problem is thus exacerbated. Losing one staff member has tremendous effects nowadays, and its not people being "too soft or unable to take the heat"- its pure disrespect, which is the norm it seems these days, and that is fucking wrong.

I see where you are coming from here but I feel you're conflating things. Nobody is demanding anything, you're right, that would be bad. Nobody has the right to be nasty. Getting a manager would just waste more of everyone's time and and in my opinion be more of an encumbrance.

On the other hand, I would agree that people in general have been much snappier and ill-mannered in the last few years. Trying to be understanding and kind to people who work in the service industry is something that many people could afford to do more.
Your park experience hinges a lot on your behavior. It's a circle. We are all a part of closing the loop that is woefully fractured as of late.

Absolutely agree with this. If you go in expecting problems, dwell on the problems you run into, or simply lack patience dealing with minor issues, you will 100% have a worse experience. While this is true, it doesn't exclude you from mentioning those issues when they come up and then moving along with your day.

"Well that sucks. I know you're just doing your job and it isn't anything you personally decided but it's kinda ridiculous that we're expected to wait 45 minutes in line on a 90 degree day without being allowed to bring drinks with us"

I'd say that qualifies as giving lip, non-aggressive, and not rude. Employee hears that a few times, they mention it to their sup, who's heard it from other employees, and now it's on the docket as a very unpopular policy that should probably get addressed.
 

horsesboy

DarKoaster stalker
Advisory Panel
Silver Donor
Jun 16, 2013
4,519
10,065
250
I just arrived at the park and judging from the parking lots attendance is significantly lower then I would expect 4 days before the 4th of July. I have heard rumors from long time employees that the numbers have been well bellow predictions lately. What I am seeing today seems to support that. I am also hear that corporate is looking at some of the recent decisions as counter productive and that a rumor has it some of those decisions may be close to being reversed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Zachary
Nov 24, 2009
3,467
3,612
250
Well I used to be in the park a few times a week and havent set foot inside in a month. I know quite a few frieds that used to also go very frequestly and they too havent been.


Now on to the giving front line team members lip. Not saying it happens at BGW because I used to talk to Carl all the time in the park and would regularly see Kevin in the past couple years but many places go with the theory that guests shouldnt give front line workers lip about poor service or operations. But then at the same time they would hide behind those same front line workers to avoid having to deal with the negative feedback themselves directly from guests.
 

Coasternerd

What’s better than one coaster? 2 coasters!
Dec 7, 2021
771
1,224
210
I just arrived at the park and judging from the parking lots attendance is significantly lower then I would expect 4 days before the 4th of July. I have heard rumors from long time employees that the numbers have been well bellow predictions lately. What I am seeing today seems to support that. I am also hwar that corporate is looking at some of the recent decisions as counter productive and that a roo
And then you have this past Tuesday where it looked like Howl O Scream at opening.
 

Ice

↑%
Silver Donor
Jan 5, 2018
2,005
4,326
250
DC Area
People seem to have taken what I meant to the extreme, when I was in no way saying I'd go out and harass a front line employee. Similarly to @Fur Dozy I'm not advocating it, and I would actively make sure the employee knows I am not attacking them if I were to do it, but complaining about something from a customer perspective to a front line employee can be done in a good manner, and I believe it to be more effective than filling out a complaint card.

Seemed to trip some tempers with that one, when in no part would I advocate suicide-inducing levels of outrage towards a cashier. I thought this to be obvious since that is literally unreasonable. Apologies if it came across that way.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: EdK
Mar 17, 2020
662
1,146
220
I just arrived at the park and judging from the parking lots attendance is significantly lower then I would expect 4 days before the 4th of July. I have heard rumors from long time employees that the numbers have been well bellow predictions lately. What I am seeing today seems to support that. I am also hwar that corporate is looking at some of the recent decisions as counter productive and that a roo
It was a 10 minute wait to ride Iron Gwazi at 5:30 yesterday, and a 25 minute wait at 2:30 Monday, so it might not just be a BGW issue.
 
Mar 8, 2022
704
1,099
220
Martinsburg, WV
twitter.com
It was a 10 minute wait to ride Iron Gwazi at 5:30 yesterday, and a 25 minute wait at 2:30 Monday, so it might not just be a BGW issue.
I've seen people reporting that frequently for the last couple of months..... and actually, it was pretty much like that in April when I was there. I think SEAS is really approaching the tipping point.... They've already lost a lot of people (me included) that will need to see years of improvements to improve their image but I think they may be really close to the point where their most loyal fans are starting to fall and building multiple coasters might not be able to fix that if they don't address the other issues immediately.
 

Zachary

Administrator
Sep 23, 2009
15,550
44,555
260
Virginia
Not to read the tea leaves too much, but I'd also highlight that the recent ticket and pass sales have been REALLY aggressive and there seems to be an increasing number of compelling membership rewards (another $10 in Busch Bucks was just added the other day for instance).

Anecdotally, though the park has often felt crowded to me lately, I don't feel like the parking lots seem to reflect that during my visits. When I was at the park two Saturdays ago (GORGEOUS weather, start of a new event, concert day, and a holiday weekend), the place felt packed, but judging by the parking lots, that feeling seemed to be more likely a result of decreased park capacity than actual numbers. Not having to park anyone across the street on a summer Saturday with perfect weather pre-COVID felt like it was pretty damn rare.

Without any indoor attractions, minimal shows, limited ride operations, multiple attractions closed, minimal dining operations, etc, it seems to me like the crowds are far more visible these days—but I'm not convinced they're as large as they should be.
 
Nov 24, 2009
3,467
3,612
250
I would also add, people that may have drove seperately may be riding together now since fuel is so expensive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zachary
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad