The State of the Park: Kings Dominion
- Thread starter Jonesta6
- Start date
In all honesty as it stands it’s a pretty great park, and it’s deff top of the mid tear parks and I have very few complaints about it. With what they have done with JX and taking out chain restaurants and upgrading them to top notch park restaurants, and on top of that the gci grizzly restoration really speaks volumes. And there’s so many other little things they’ve added/done that I won’t get into just shows that cedar fair is very much interested in kd, and isn’t this “black sheep/stepchild” park in the cf chain people make it out to be. While we still don’t know what could be coming to the volcano plot of land I trust that cf will give kd a worthy replacement, and if all goes well I can see kd becoming one of the top dogs in the chain and if not, definitely it’s own lil league in the chain.
I have visited Kings Dominion more times than any other amusement park I've been to. That may just be it's my home park, and the one that was the talk of NOVA folk all the time and somewhat is to this day. Ever since coming for the first time, I have an attachment to this park. It may have noticeable flaws, but also quite the atmosphere. Last decade I fell under the impression that KD was left out of the parks that got the bigger investments. I was still wondering when their next coaster would come. Now we got an RMC hybrid and an S&S 4D free spin. Honestly a few years ago I fell under the impression that Kings Dominion had seen better days. That changed when I worked at the park in 2021. The atmosphere of Planet Snoopy is such a vibe. International Street gave me Busch vibes. And what Cedar Fair is doing to rebuild Safari Village into X-Pedition is unlike anything I've ever seen happen to Kings Dominion as long as they've owned the park. I think it's a sign of bigger things to come. Of course, what happens to the park is out of our control.
With that being said, I have to question a few KD decisions. For instance:
Why was Shockwave replaced with a flat ride that didn't use the entire space? I'm curious why they didn't replace it with another compact coaster like a Gerstlauer Eurofighter or spinner, S&S El Loco, or any other coaster that could fit? Or even a Zamperla Disk'O? I think the logical answer is Shockwave would've needed to be removed earlier to give more construction time, although Knott's removed their Boomerang in spring of the year Hangtime started construction. I honestly don't remember the reason if there was one.
Backlot was never given a makeover for JX in 2022, and it's not getting one this year. Will it ever happen? Same for FoF/I305, though I would want to see that section become a sub-area themed like some military/research base.
Even today, as Cedar Fair continues to invest in KD's infrastructure, there are people who claim the park is neglected. That really bothers me. I even got into an argument with somebody on YouTube who said that things in JX, including the scenery and dining, were not impressive or special. "Ooooh, they added paint! Anybody can go to Lowes and get paint." And people still claim it's not enough to compete against Busch. My take? Kings Dominion isn't doing these thematic upgrades and other improvements to compete with Busch Gardens. They are focusing on themselves.
With that being said, I have to question a few KD decisions. For instance:
Why was Shockwave replaced with a flat ride that didn't use the entire space? I'm curious why they didn't replace it with another compact coaster like a Gerstlauer Eurofighter or spinner, S&S El Loco, or any other coaster that could fit? Or even a Zamperla Disk'O? I think the logical answer is Shockwave would've needed to be removed earlier to give more construction time, although Knott's removed their Boomerang in spring of the year Hangtime started construction. I honestly don't remember the reason if there was one.
Backlot was never given a makeover for JX in 2022, and it's not getting one this year. Will it ever happen? Same for FoF/I305, though I would want to see that section become a sub-area themed like some military/research base.
Even today, as Cedar Fair continues to invest in KD's infrastructure, there are people who claim the park is neglected. That really bothers me. I even got into an argument with somebody on YouTube who said that things in JX, including the scenery and dining, were not impressive or special. "Ooooh, they added paint! Anybody can go to Lowes and get paint." And people still claim it's not enough to compete against Busch. My take? Kings Dominion isn't doing these thematic upgrades and other improvements to compete with Busch Gardens. They are focusing on themselves.
Agreed. They don’t need to compete on the theming aspect with Busch until the entire park has the theming level that JX has. They just need to work on themself first.
The KD Shockwave coaster removal was part of a move to eliminate all Togo stand up coasters within the Cedar Fair park chain. Kings Island and Canada's Wonderland had their version removed within 2-3 years of Shockwave's removal.
I don't understand the logic/rule about when a coaster is removed from a site another should take its place. That is not true. You might get a coaster or something else in its place. Delirium is a perfect example of getting something else.
I personally feel there's more to ride placement than a random roll of the dice. Yes, there is room to place a small/medium flat ride on either side of Delirium. But, we don't have a clear insight as to what is planned for the next 3-5 years. CF/KD business plans are fluid to a certain point and capital expenditure can be redirected as needs, attendance, and economic factors occur. That could change focus to what type of attraction(s) are coming and where they will be located. It could affect the scope of the project (it gets scaled up or scaled down). I think we all feel comfortable that something major is coming to the Jungle-X area in '24 or '25.
I knew why Shockwave had to go. I wasn’t sure why they decided to put one flat ride in its place rather than something, not necessarily a roller coaster, that could fill the lot completely. I actually thought it was going to be a multi-ride package before the announcement and I stood corrected. But Delirium works just fine. Edit: wasn’t King Cobra removed a few years before Cedar Fair got Kings Island?
I agree with @cschnizer though. The space around Delirium feels dead. That space should be used even if just filled in with trees and such.
EDIT -
In fact this would be one of my major complaints about KD in the state of the park as a whole. There's plenty of stretches where there's no rides/shops and the only "design" that went into the area was "open grass field" or "trees". Now I'm not saying rip it all out, make the park a parking lot, and fill it with rides and stands. Rather, take some of these spaces and beautify them some. Do some plantings, have an artist create an art walk, put some roaming entertainment there. CF seems to make it more obvious than most that there are spaces rides once were or never were at because they tend to do little with the area.
EDIT -
In fact this would be one of my major complaints about KD in the state of the park as a whole. There's plenty of stretches where there's no rides/shops and the only "design" that went into the area was "open grass field" or "trees". Now I'm not saying rip it all out, make the park a parking lot, and fill it with rides and stands. Rather, take some of these spaces and beautify them some. Do some plantings, have an artist create an art walk, put some roaming entertainment there. CF seems to make it more obvious than most that there are spaces rides once were or never were at because they tend to do little with the area.
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Yea, and I would say (since these comparisons keep coming up) the long walks between condensed spots seem so much longer at KD than BGW because there is less to look at and hold your interest. For example walking from Eiffel Tower to back of CAG is 885 feet but Squires to Festa (my usual path) is 1410 feet, but feels so much shorter because watching the rides is more interesting and the "empty" spaces are more interesting.
KD is in the right direction under Cedar Fair. The overall park experience is much improved since the Paramount days.
I believe that most of the issues with the park (except the too frequently unscheduled closings) can be blamed on former management. Unlike Busch Gardens were the issues are on the current management. Even the removal of Volcano was a result of poor decisions by former management.
The park is just as beautiful as Busch gardens as there is better tree coverage over the pathways, and the international Street entrance is absolutely stunning. BGW has nothing like that plus it has the hideous right of way down the center. If KD the park still had Lake Charles, it would be the prettiest park in the nation.
The recent focus towards theming is a great direction. Even though the new anchor attraction is garbage, Jungle X is immersive and makes you feel the atmopshere as you walk through it. There are always new details to discover there. Hopefully the entire park will eventually get that kind of attention.
The food service has greatly improved since Grain and Grill. There is a lot of variety and with the season dining pass, food is reasonable. If one doesn't have that pass, prices are high. I don't buy anything one-off at the park anymore because of the pricing. $10 plus for Ritas gelati?
KD operations are light years superior to BGW. ALL of KD is open s the posted opening to close time. All attractions are open during park hours (unless closed for reasons). And there is always enough food service locations open with a lot of variety.
My only complaint about operations is the penny pinching of staff to only run one side of Racer 75. It is one of the few racing coasters in the world and they rob us of that great racing experience. Especially since it is now designed to race well with the synchronized lift hill.
Winterfest is one of the best Christmas events for lighting IMO. The lighting is gorgeous and the park's tree coverage allows them to make the lighting so it surrounds you from the ground to the sky. The biggest issue with this event is the worn out, across the parks entertainment.
There are 2 main flaws right now.
The parks reputation for not staying open in questionable weather. That discourages people from traveling a distance to go to the park. This affects crowd and i still contend it is one of the reasons that KD isn't getting major investments (replacement of Volcano). Jungle X is great, but it was a lower cost investment than a proper Volcano replacement
The park lacks, total family rides (slow, moving rides, such as transportation and dark rides), and entertainment that venues. They are missing out on the market of people that don’t want thrill rides by not having these kinds of attractions or a great entertainment lineup. This is where BGW has KD beat hands down. "Let's Get Wild" was great but they sacrificed a show in the KD Theater for it, and the venue was horrible for the performers and the crowd.
One other minor issue right now is the 9PM closings. VA heat is unbearable in the summer and taking away summer night hours takes away some of the best time to be at the park.
I believe that most of the issues with the park (except the too frequently unscheduled closings) can be blamed on former management. Unlike Busch Gardens were the issues are on the current management. Even the removal of Volcano was a result of poor decisions by former management.
The park is just as beautiful as Busch gardens as there is better tree coverage over the pathways, and the international Street entrance is absolutely stunning. BGW has nothing like that plus it has the hideous right of way down the center. If KD the park still had Lake Charles, it would be the prettiest park in the nation.
The recent focus towards theming is a great direction. Even though the new anchor attraction is garbage, Jungle X is immersive and makes you feel the atmopshere as you walk through it. There are always new details to discover there. Hopefully the entire park will eventually get that kind of attention.
The food service has greatly improved since Grain and Grill. There is a lot of variety and with the season dining pass, food is reasonable. If one doesn't have that pass, prices are high. I don't buy anything one-off at the park anymore because of the pricing. $10 plus for Ritas gelati?
KD operations are light years superior to BGW. ALL of KD is open s the posted opening to close time. All attractions are open during park hours (unless closed for reasons). And there is always enough food service locations open with a lot of variety.
My only complaint about operations is the penny pinching of staff to only run one side of Racer 75. It is one of the few racing coasters in the world and they rob us of that great racing experience. Especially since it is now designed to race well with the synchronized lift hill.
Winterfest is one of the best Christmas events for lighting IMO. The lighting is gorgeous and the park's tree coverage allows them to make the lighting so it surrounds you from the ground to the sky. The biggest issue with this event is the worn out, across the parks entertainment.
There are 2 main flaws right now.
The parks reputation for not staying open in questionable weather. That discourages people from traveling a distance to go to the park. This affects crowd and i still contend it is one of the reasons that KD isn't getting major investments (replacement of Volcano). Jungle X is great, but it was a lower cost investment than a proper Volcano replacement
The park lacks, total family rides (slow, moving rides, such as transportation and dark rides), and entertainment that venues. They are missing out on the market of people that don’t want thrill rides by not having these kinds of attractions or a great entertainment lineup. This is where BGW has KD beat hands down. "Let's Get Wild" was great but they sacrificed a show in the KD Theater for it, and the venue was horrible for the performers and the crowd.
One other minor issue right now is the 9PM closings. VA heat is unbearable in the summer and taking away summer night hours takes away some of the best time to be at the park.
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Just realized I said gci instead of gravity group but y’all knew what I meant lol
I realized I kinda piggybacked off someone else’s assessment without giving my own.
So lets dive into it.
I think KD in recent years has gone from a dreadful experience that I only liked because I didn’t have to get in my car and drive to go from water park to dry park. Other than that, when I last went regularly the food was abysmal, the staff was rude on their best days, rides randomly shut down when I was in line for no reason.
Let me start with spilling the cold water on the joy of KD: It’s better, but it still has a long way to go.
I’ve said this a few times, but I feel like multiple projects have started under Cedar Fair and didn’t get completed. At least it looks that way to me. CAG got the back area started, but then it just stops with the concrete stamping and rejuvenation and suddenly your back in old KD of un-themed rides and black concrete where rides have super generic names. Old Virginia has all this nice atmosphere with the trees, and ‘hidden’ rides; then plop, you got go carts and have to go through a gift shop to get to Grizzly. Berzerker and Dominator are awkwardly off International street and next to Planet Snoopy where they just don’t belong. Speaking of International Street - there’s nothing international about it. And then there’s Jungle X. They do that, and one year later do they follow up with expanding it? No. They do nothing. Oh and how about Tumbili‘s sign not being on.
I’m sorry, but if that’s the way things looked at BGW people would be all up in arms about how awful it was. Theme areas that have no theme? Randomly placed rides? Big areas with no intentionally curated gardens? Those are all things that are complained with BGW.
Anyways enough with the comparing.
Back to state of KD
Chef Dennis has done some really nice things with the park food. It is legit good. I would like to see the park invest in a better indoor dining option. The ones they have are small, get packed easily, and the AC (in my experience) tend to always be broken. I think they need to continue not just to invest directly to what he does, but also what goes into what makes enjoying his labors. I would also like to see them invest in a unique drinks space. Uncommon soda’s, custom blends, smoothies, flavored drinks. Thinks like that.
I know I’ve spoken at length about this, but nothing bothers me more than parks that divide areas with a coaster. Take everything by the lake and move it south of Racer. And I know that’s really easily said and yes it’s unrealistic, but it’s something that can really elevate the park by not making the water park divided.
They really need to step on the gas on the following IMO:
1 - Finish Jungle X or make BLSC and further back into its own themed area. They really need to finish off what they started, and if they don’t decide to go through with it, they need to take that back area and make it more cohesive.
2 - They need to get their secondary park icon back. Maybe not rebuilding the mountain but they need to do something with that plot that’s eye candy to some degree.
3 - They need to get concrete stamping in CAG to work all the way through that midway.
The less pressure things, but need to be fixed soon:
1 - Get International Street to be international again. It feels like a bunch of boring “sameness” at the moment.
2 - Do more with their blank spaces to have gardening, sculptures, relaxation areas. Something.
3 - Start using their indoor areas better. They don’t have a lot of air conditioned spaces for extended relaxation.
So lets dive into it.
I think KD in recent years has gone from a dreadful experience that I only liked because I didn’t have to get in my car and drive to go from water park to dry park. Other than that, when I last went regularly the food was abysmal, the staff was rude on their best days, rides randomly shut down when I was in line for no reason.
Let me start with spilling the cold water on the joy of KD: It’s better, but it still has a long way to go.
I’ve said this a few times, but I feel like multiple projects have started under Cedar Fair and didn’t get completed. At least it looks that way to me. CAG got the back area started, but then it just stops with the concrete stamping and rejuvenation and suddenly your back in old KD of un-themed rides and black concrete where rides have super generic names. Old Virginia has all this nice atmosphere with the trees, and ‘hidden’ rides; then plop, you got go carts and have to go through a gift shop to get to Grizzly. Berzerker and Dominator are awkwardly off International street and next to Planet Snoopy where they just don’t belong. Speaking of International Street - there’s nothing international about it. And then there’s Jungle X. They do that, and one year later do they follow up with expanding it? No. They do nothing. Oh and how about Tumbili‘s sign not being on.
I’m sorry, but if that’s the way things looked at BGW people would be all up in arms about how awful it was. Theme areas that have no theme? Randomly placed rides? Big areas with no intentionally curated gardens? Those are all things that are complained with BGW.
Anyways enough with the comparing.
Back to state of KD
Chef Dennis has done some really nice things with the park food. It is legit good. I would like to see the park invest in a better indoor dining option. The ones they have are small, get packed easily, and the AC (in my experience) tend to always be broken. I think they need to continue not just to invest directly to what he does, but also what goes into what makes enjoying his labors. I would also like to see them invest in a unique drinks space. Uncommon soda’s, custom blends, smoothies, flavored drinks. Thinks like that.
I know I’ve spoken at length about this, but nothing bothers me more than parks that divide areas with a coaster. Take everything by the lake and move it south of Racer. And I know that’s really easily said and yes it’s unrealistic, but it’s something that can really elevate the park by not making the water park divided.
They really need to step on the gas on the following IMO:
1 - Finish Jungle X or make BLSC and further back into its own themed area. They really need to finish off what they started, and if they don’t decide to go through with it, they need to take that back area and make it more cohesive.
2 - They need to get their secondary park icon back. Maybe not rebuilding the mountain but they need to do something with that plot that’s eye candy to some degree.
3 - They need to get concrete stamping in CAG to work all the way through that midway.
The less pressure things, but need to be fixed soon:
1 - Get International Street to be international again. It feels like a bunch of boring “sameness” at the moment.
2 - Do more with their blank spaces to have gardening, sculptures, relaxation areas. Something.
3 - Start using their indoor areas better. They don’t have a lot of air conditioned spaces for extended relaxation.
We just got back from KD and I have two observations.
1. The operations were slow, glacial, in fact.
2. Many of the restaurants were closed.
I say this as someone who believes KD gets a bad rap. But today I was not impressed with how anything was being run.
1. The operations were slow, glacial, in fact.
2. Many of the restaurants were closed.
I say this as someone who believes KD gets a bad rap. But today I was not impressed with how anything was being run.
Just to clarify my liking of @Nicole ’s post - it’s because I feel like the improvement of KD getting compared to the decline of BGW is happening so much, the standards of acceptable levels of customer service is not equally applied. At this moment, it is refreshing to see someone who has been giving good reviews of KD lately to be honest about it. (Again, this is my personal feeling as someone who thinks the quality of the two parks is about the same right now)
I think Kings Dominion had enough open yesterday based on the crowds and lines I saw. That said, at the same time, it did feel to me like a lot was closed—both rides and dining. I do think it's worth noting since I did not have that same feeling at BGW the day before. I suspect most guests would have come away from BGW with a better impression than KD this weekend.
I was there, and it seemed normal. In fact, I got walk-ons on Dominator and Berserker, and I got served food faster than I had ever been in the past