Project 2021 (?): Volcano Replacement

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Mar 19, 2015
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I honestly have no problem with Cedar Fair's love for B&M. As Zach said: great guest satisfaction, incredibly reliable, and essentially no risk in installing one. I'm very welcoming of a Wing coaster for KD, but, my main problem is THIS layout. It's such an insignificant use of a wing coaster. Rides like Fēnix and Flug Der Dämonen are just 30ft taller and do a lot more for just a few $mil more. For the price point though (I'm going to assume $12-15m for the KD ride), I feel like that budget could've been better used on a killer GCI woodie or a Gerstlauer Infinity (à la Monster @ Adventureland). Y'all get the point
 

Joe

#RIPVolcano
Feb 12, 2011
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Even though we don't know if these plans are even still accurate, I think a wing coaster would be a smart choice for KD for 2021 or 2022. KD is mostly a local/regional park so I think the idea that they need to put themselves "on the map" (especially in the same park that has I305 and Twisted Timbers already) is silly. Plus, since BGW Project 2021 is already playing the "intensity" card in 2021, I think KD would be foolish to also try to compete on intensity. Instead, they should differentiate their new attraction with uniqueness - and any way you slice it, a B&M wing coaster is a unique addition for the region. Most guests at KD have never ridden Wild Eagle which is 7 hours away.

So, while BGW gets to market their super tall new coaster, KD gets to market their "first coaster of its kind on the East Coast." I think the "coolness factor" of wing coasters is a great selling point to give KD the marketing weapon they need against BGW.

On the other hand, I feel like rides like a GCI or Infinity would get lost as "just another wooden coaster" or "just another looping coaster" to the GP.
 
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Jul 5, 2017
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Im starting to think Busch is better in every way over KD at this point. Busch is getting 2 ground up damn good rides, "most likely". Might be the wrong thread for this, but going to KD over the summer was just boring to me aside from intimidator and TT.
 
Jul 5, 2017
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^I mean if you ask me I would be inclined to always prefer BGW over KD. That said we are damn lucky here in Virginia to have both of these parks in our state. If you live in Richmond like me the theme park itch can get scratched. I always see trip reports from enthusiasts from outside Virginia who just LOVE both of our parks. We just go so often its very easy to get nitpicky.

I am very okay with by 2021 our selection becomes:
-Batsh*t Crazy Intamin Giga
-Intamin? Launch Shuttle? (whatever 2021 is)
-Intamin Multi-Launch
-RMC Hybrid with tons of airtime
-The OG B&M Hyper that I could ride 50 times in a row
-B&M Dive
-Insanely huge B&M Invert
-Awesome B&M Floorless
-B&M Wing Coaster
-Multi Launch themed coaster with drop track
-Indoor Premier Spaghetti Bowl
-Mini GCI
-Sky Rocket II
-Nessie
-The last Mack Bobsled in the US
-The others.

I can't really complain too much honestly then most of PA, Carowinds, SFA, and SFGAdv is easily drivable. Imagine being a coaster enthusiast in North Dakota (do those even exist???).
 
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Joe

#RIPVolcano
Feb 12, 2011
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BuschDominion.com
^This. If the parks do make history and BGW and KD both introduce new coasters in 2021, then that gives them an INCREDIBLE opportunity to revive their "Virginia Thrills" partnership and market joint tickets to out-of-state regions. Two great parks with two new coasters would be a great selling point to drive in vacationers from the surrounding region.
 
Sep 22, 2010
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Rides like Fēnix and Flug Der Dämonen are just 30ft taller and do a lot more for just a few $mil more. For the price point though (I'm going to assume $12-15m for the KD ride), I feel like that budget could've been better used on a killer GCI woodie or a Gerstlauer Infinity
Repeat after me... R-O-I, R-O-I

KD had not had a great ROI aka return on investment the past few years. CF isn't going to keep staking a few extra million on a ride that isn't going to be bringing in the needed revenue if they don't have to. ROI and MARKETABILITY are the most important words in the coaster industry.

This coaster will be "cheap and reliable." Two things that CF and Park maintenance will love. This ride will "ONLY" cost around 15-18 MM (THANKS PRICE OF STEEL) and that's adorable in today's terms.

For instance Orion is costing KI $30 MILLION wheres five years ago Fury 325 cost Carowinds $30 MILLION. Inflation would have put the cost of Orion around $45-48 MILLION to make a clone of Fury. For what? 13 extra seconds of ride time. Yeah, parks will always choose an attraction that will yield the best ROI. Building a 130-140 ft wing coaster that goes to the park entrance and back or blah blah blah isn't going to bring the revenue boost needed to pay for it. Simply having the first wing coaster on the east coast will be enough. That's where Marketing comes in

R-O-I, R-O-I....

BGW spent over $50 MILLION on the Oktoberfest rehabilitation. Between Verbolten, Mach Tower, the Pretzel Shop and over facelifts, it's a brand new hamlet. I'd bet it did more for return on investment than if the park had spent more money to build a super duper looper or sometime. Finding the best additions to match your desired R-O-I is key.

I am glad KD isn't over investing. They need to stay in the business of adding appropriate size quality attractions and not have they multi year hangover they had after I305. And people wonder why the park did "nothing" for several years after I305.
 
Jul 31, 2016
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I don’t have a huge problem with a park not adding huge coasters over short periods of time when they show exponential growth in providing a better overall experience. The special events/shows that Kings Dominion put out this year were very well received. Not to mention how Kings Dominion regularly updates pre-existing areas of the park every year. Getting your clientele adjusted to a better guest experience before wasting that capital on attractions is a pretty smart way to go if you ask me.

Satisfaction scores were through the roof during Carnivale! What’s the problem with adjusting the consumer to a “new” park? I like the direction Kings Dominion is headed towards. Most sections of the park are now up to date, and because of that KD may be in a good place to evaluate Safari Village as a whole. Before adding rides, what other opportunities are present in the area? The expanded Safari Village plaza that @Zachary highlighted may have a bit to do with this...
 
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Mar 19, 2015
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@KDcoasterMAN - I am well aware of ROI. It's more than likely the reason we're (possibly) getting this layout: a small addition that CAN act as a replacement for Volcano that corporate all but knows won't generate any worthwhile ROI. The fact they're willing to drop $12-15m on this ride when there are definitely cheaper, more interesting options out there both fascinates and haunts me. I guess it's just the combination of Cedar Fair loving their B&M's and the $$$ they're willing to spend.
 

Joe

#RIPVolcano
Feb 12, 2011
5,017
13,862
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Near Richmond
BuschDominion.com
The fact they're willing to drop $12-15m on this ride when there are definitely cheaper, more interesting options out there both fascinates and haunts me.
I think you're underestimating the power of marketing in this business. To the average guest, a wing coaster is a unique and cool concept. I'll bet most members of the GP around here have never even heard of a wing coaster before. The only type of coaster I can think of that's equally marketable is a Raptor. While something like an Infinity would make us enthusiasts happy, I feel like the GP would see little difference between that and other looping coasters like Dominator, FOF, Anaconda, etc. - at least not when they're sitting at home and see an ad for the ride.

And I 100% agree with RollyCoaster, I'm totally fine with the new direction CF has been taking KD lately. When KD was constantly adding thrill rides, people still (rightly so, in my opinion) hated on the park for being trashy and not well-rounded. I'd much rather have a quality park experience with quality rides added here and there and that's where KD (and its guests) seems to want it to be headed.
 
Apr 22, 2019
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If that's how it ends up it looks to me like left side will be the place to ride. You get more close to the ground sections. Overall it looks fun.
 
Mar 16, 2016
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Thunderbird cost $22 million to build. A similar sized coaster without the launch from B&M goes for about $5-7 million less.
How much of that includes the building, expansion, changes around Voyage, land clearing?
 

b.mac

Great Adventure got an RMC...
May 14, 2011
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How much of that includes the building, expansion, changes around Voyage, land clearing?
That is the listed price via Holiday World, without explanation of what exactly that number encapsulates.

I imagine even with all of the buildings and the clearing for TBird's footprint it would still run a significantly higher price compared to a bare bones wing coaster of similar size that used a traditional lift hill. That's if the $22 million price tag is total cost and not just for the coaster.
 
Nov 15, 2019
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That is the listed price via Holiday World, without explanation of what exactly that number encapsulates.

I imagine even with all of the buildings and the clearing for TBird's footprint it would still run a significantly higher price compared to a bare bones wing coaster of similar size that used a traditional lift hill. That's if the $22 million price tag is total cost and not just for the coaster.
Yeah launch coasters seem to be more expensive due to the extra programming needed. I may be wrong, but I don't believe T-Birds track was fabricated at Clearmont. If it needed to be shipped from Europe, that would jack up the price as well.
 
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