Project 2021 (?): Volcano Replacement

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Zachary

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First wing coaster on the East Coast (that isn't just a free spin), I like it. Already more excited for this than Drachen Spire, but Pantheon will be hard to beat.
Agreed. I think people are being way too negative about this draft proposal. Even if this is EXACTLY what we get, it's a really good fit for KD if you ask me. It's a unique ride type for the region, it's less intense than i305 and Timbers, and it will have great capacity and reliability—things KD definitely needs.

I get that a small wing coaster is essentially no enthusiast's dream project, but, even the exact coaster proposed in the leaked plans would be a big crowd pleaser for Kings Dominion—and that's really what KD should be trying to find.

I'm more worried about the unused space than it possibly being an abbreviated clone. Will it be that much shorter than X-Flight?
This layout proposal would be shorter in height than X-Flight. It's impossible to accurately calculate length without more detailed plans than what I'm working with right now.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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I'm with the crowd that thinks this would be a good fit for the park, especially if it was well themed and/or mostly blocked the FOF building similar to how Volcano did.

However, I just hope the final design has a bit more height (and length) to it. This thing is short. For reference...
Americana: 110 ft
Twisted Timbers: 112 ft
Anaconda: 128 ft
Intimidator 305 2nd hill: 150 ft
Volcano (RIP): 155 ft
Dominator: 161 ft
 
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Feb 14, 2019
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If you don't count Dominator since it was a Geauga Lake transplant, KD doesn't have B&Ms - regardless of what actually happens, it's awesome to know that KD/CF are willing to look into having them install a brand new ride (even if it's a clone, which I doubt few guests will even notice or care).
 
Dec 20, 2018
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I'm just dissapointed by the size of it mainly. Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised
 
Nov 30, 2018
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If this can be looked through a lense as being a replacement for Anaconda, then this project makes a lot of sense. If a future project replacing the more intense nature of Volcano in a different part of the park is in the pipeline for 2-3 years after, this could work well in the medium term.

The main issue is KD really needs to communicate some of their strategy to the public as secrecy is not serving them well in this case.
 
Aug 9, 2017
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Even if it is a clone, I remain hopeful they will landscape it. Case in point: Wonder Woman vs. RailBlazer. Six Flags plopped the former down (they only got away with it because the quarry wall is a great backdrop), while Cedar Fair built rockwork to enhance the latter and make it feel less like a clone.

What a backwards world, BGW building Intamins and KD getting a B&M.
 
Apr 22, 2019
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I guess this is a fine addition. It will be liked by many, even if for me the height and length and lack of launch are disappointing. I'm going to ride it, of course. I do hope they at least have some near-miss keyhole elements and good landscaping/theming.
 
Feb 8, 2019
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This isn't the direction I expected for them to go. That being said, I wouldn't say I would be disappointed. I really enjoy wing coasters and it's not something we have around here with the exception of Wild Eagle.

The only way this would be disappointing to me is if it did not feature theming/near misses/keyholes, etc. Wing Coasters are made for those interactions!
 
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Nov 30, 2018
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May I ask what you expect? The leaked documents are literally working plans from inside the park. That’s what businesses do... they plan things before announcing them.
Actually have a conversation with their customer base about the vision for the park. You don't need specific plans to have a vision. Even something as simple as stating that as part of tearing down Volcano they are looking at a replacement ride as soon as feasible, maybe even provide some guidance where they are in the process. Basically do the opposite of what they did by tearing down Volcano, saying almost nothing, and pretending it wasn't an issue for the park.

Normally I'd agree that big announcements and building up suspense are good, but in KD's case, they need to hold their customer base through a rough period until they can get things turned around, particularly with Busch Gardens expanding as it is.
 
Apr 17, 2014
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You can't build up something that isn't 100% going to happen. Kings Dominion can't come out and say, we are trying to build a wing coaster in 2 years, because what if the project doesn't go through. What if BGW told everyone, hey y'all we are going to open a coaster code named project madrid that is 315 feet tall in a couple years! The enthusiasts and GP would be pissed when the project was cancelled. You have to get your eggs in order before going about announcements for any company's sake as Joe said.

Also parks pay people to bring new, fun, and innovative ideas to the table that guests will enjoy and that will make a great addition to the park. A wing coaster is a great addition to KD's line up no matter the height. This thing is already looking to pack 5 inversions in it! KD already has an intense giga and a nice supporting line up. Personally if I'm looking for height right now, the only thing I think would benefit the park is a hyper.
 

Zachary

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I see where @rswashdc is coming from. Moreso than with almost any other park I can think of, Kings Dominion tends to project an almost eerie silence. Interviews with the media seem almost non-existent, public statements are a once-in-a-blue-moon occurrence, and there's very little face-to-face interaction between pass holders and park management. The void of humanizing communication makes it really easy for the community to be skeptical and doubtful about the future of the park.

I firmly believe that Kings Dominion would have been much better served by pulling back the curtain some and telling people a little about what was going on with Volcano—tell people why the ride had to close—tell people why the mountain had to come down—tell people that the park is working to try to bring a new, unique experience to the park in the future.

A lot of chain parks feel like cold, lifeless corporations, but I'd contend that even amongst similar parks, Kings Dominion is particularly bad about it—and I think it really does harm the public's perception of the park's management and direction.
 
Oct 23, 2019
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"A lot of chain parks feel like cold, lifeless corporations, but I'd contend that even amongst similar parks, Kings Dominion is particularly bad about it—and I think it really does harm the public's perception of the park's management and direction."

Kings Dominion, IMO has been on a downward spiral for some time. When my wife and I first got our seasons passes in 2009 it was great (or maybe it was great because it was newish to us), but the more and more we went the more we started to see how poorly the park operates. Between some of the slowest dispatch times out of any park I visit, to the removal of rides and the lack of communication, we decided to not get passes for some time. I've had a handful of surveys as I'm sure many of you had, but it focused on the unlimited beverage option or something dumb. We've dealt with some very poorly trained/rude employees

Not only did volcano go quickly, they lost a major water slide recently with no replacement for that. I only got to ride twisted timbers once last season, but i wasn't super thrilled with the ride. I took the back seat and the ejector air time had me so forcibly thrown upwards that the restraint system was painful (others may have different thoughts). Hurler sat for what, 2 seasons with one having it removed from the park map?

I'm not going to be disappointed until plans are final. The ride as it stands seems really short, but I like the winged concept. I always thought volcano was a weak ride except for the launch. So much more could have been done with the ride instead of dropping from the height it was at to a brake run.
 
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Joe

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I disagree that the park is on a downward spiral, but that’s a topic for another discussion.

One thing I do miss about previous management was former GM Gary Chadwick’s presence on social media. He posted behind-the-scenes looks and even teasers for future plans almost daily on his public Instagram. He really gave a face to the park. Likewise, I thought KD’s past PR manager, Katelyn, did a good job of making KD’s marketing feel more personal. It made KD feel like a real place with real people that really cared.

Looking at what the park has actually done lately, from Winterfest to what I think is a beautiful revamp of Candy Apple Grove, I feel like the park still does care, more so in fact than in the past. Unfortunately, current management doesn’t seem to be taking the same initiative to bridge that personal gap between the park and the public.
 
Sep 22, 2010
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Before I speak, I am a former park employee....

Totally agree, especially considering a coaster to replace Volcano almost definitely wasn'tin the park's 5 year plan and thus wasn't budget for.
True, but the park changes plans quickly all the time. Great example. The 2008 park addition was never supposed to be Dominator. In the early summer of 2007, the park was developing the plans to remove Hypersonic, with a closure date of Labor Day 2007. The original plans were the clear the site for a Huss Giant Frisbee ride (i.e. Maxx Air at Cedar Point, similar to our Delirium). I worked throughout the various rides in the Grove/OVA section of the park as a LIC/Lead. When the midsummer decision to close the amusement side of Geauga Lake by CF in July of 2007, the decision to close XLC on Labor Day was reversed. Dominator was coming, and we never saw a Giant Frisbee ride on the Grove until 2017. The idea of the park closing Volcano and then immediately adding a new coaster within two years is not surprising to me.

I see where @rswashdc is coming from. Moreso than with almost any other park I can think of, Kings Dominion tends to project an almost eerie silence. Interviews with the media seem almost non-existent, public statements are a once-in-a-blue-moon occurrence, and there's very little face-to-face interaction between pass holders and park management. The void of humanizing communication makes it really easy for the community to be skeptical and doubtful about the future of the park.

I firmly believe that Kings Dominion would have been much better served by pulling back the curtain some and telling people a little about what was going on with Volcano—tell people why the ride had to close—tell people why the mountain had to come down—tell people that the park is working to try to bring a new, unique experience to the park in the future.

A lot of chain parks feel like cold, lifeless corporations, but I'd contend that even amongst similar parks, Kings Dominion is particularly bad about it—and I think it really does harm the public's perception of the park's management and direction.
I do not disagree with KD being more open about making a press release about the closure and removal of Volcano and the Mountain. Through my own sources, the rumor for the rides closure is related to replacement parts and track/mountain exterior replacement that was needed. I heard* a price tag was in the millions to do it. Based on Volcanoe's downtime issues and low capacity, I can understand why the park decided on the direction it took.

As for the leaked plans...

I think it is a perfect addition. Kings Dominion is not what Carolwinds/Kings Island is when it comes to the total revenue brought in... The revenue reaction to I305 proved to CF the KD is nothing more than a second-tier park in the CF chain. We won't see I305 style rides coming to the park moving forward. small, intimate rides like TT, 2021 coaster seem like the new norm.

Sorry if this perspective isn't welcome. Welcome to reply or send me a message if you have words.

*my sources are mostly correct...
 
Feb 8, 2019
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I don't see where anyone can argue with this. Even an outsider looking in can see that I305 didn't exactly hit the mark. Look at installations leading up to it and compare that to the 8 years of silence that followed it. It could be a fluke, I know there was a recession going on. Heck; Cedar Point took a 6 year break after Maverick. That being said, the apparent trajectory of KD changed when I305 was installed. The fact that this park even has a ride of that caliber blows my mind. I'm glad it's there, but it really breaks the mold of a mid-tier park. Was it a mistake? I don't think we have enough information to answer that question accurately.

That ramble aside, TT was a much more reasonable sized addition, and it seems to be a more popular addition. If that is the case, then seeing another mid-size ride makes sense. I don't think that there would be as much butthurt about this potential B&M if it weren't for the fact that it was sitting on Volcano's grave.
 
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May 9, 2019
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I don't see where anyone can argue with this. Even an outsider looking in can see that I305 didn't exactly hit the mark. Look at installations leading up to it and compare that to the 8 years of silence that followed it. It could be a fluke, I know there was a recession going on. Heck; Cedar Point took a 6 year break after Maverick. That being said, the apparent trajectory of KD changed when I305 was installed. The fact that this park even has a ride of that caliber blows my mind. I'm glad it's there, but it really breaks the mold of a mid-tier park. Was it a mistake? I don't think we have enough information to answer that question accurately.

That ramble aside, TT was a much more reasonable sized addition, and it seems to be a more popular addition. If that is the case, then seeing another mid-size ride makes sense. I don't think that there would be as much butthurt about this potential B&M if it weren't for the fact that it was sitting on Volcano's grave.
Could not agree with your final statement any more than I do. The fact that this ride will be on the location of where Volcano was located will always make it feel like "Volcano's replacement" and it will need to live up to that hype (fair or not).

I am happy to hear that there is a plan, any plan, at this point to put a new coaster in the park; but until it is announced or we see some construction evidence I am going to take it with a block of salt.
 
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