Project 2021: 355ft Attraction in Festhaus Park

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GrandpaD

Grumpy Ol' Man
Aug 3, 2017
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Newport News, VA
And I respect that take, but then they should make it clear through the reporter that their issue was the lack of time to notify their residents.

Like I’ve said, that statement on “other ways to be world class without being taller” is what chaps me hard. That comes off to me very poorly. And it’s why I think this is going to be a bit of a testy hearing when they get to it.
As I said, I don't know how much time transpired between whatever KM/BGW meeting and the JCC hearing. It sounds like a short timeframe.

I agree that comment was way out of line. The same guy probably says "why do so many people clog my streets for this golf tournament! Can't they watch on TV?". Again, I think it's "educating" the community thru better relations. Had they had time to meet, discuss and get into some "whys", they might have curtailed such an attitude.
 

GrandpaD

Grumpy Ol' Man
Aug 3, 2017
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Newport News, VA
Moving on from community relations, I have to backtrack my comment regarding a potential Red Force clone. Measuring it via Google, it's well over 900ft in length. Although RF is just 12ft taller than the waiver request, I can't envision the length being that much shorter (unless they launch at "eyeballs in back of your skull" speed). Such length just doesn't fit in the Field, especially where @Zachary estimates the approximate peak location.

At the same time, I just can't see a lift hill. Supposedly they moved the peak 3 times away from KM. To me, that sounds like they moved from the center of the field towards the Rhine. So, how could a lift hill peak be initially in the center of the Field? Current position, yes. But initially, no. So, even though it'll be a bit of a walk, I still think we're looking at a tower/coaster combo.
 
Sep 24, 2018
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At the same time, I just can't see a lift hill. Supposedly they moved the peak 3 times away from KM. To me, that sounds like they moved from the center of the field towards the Rhine. So, how could a lift hill peak be initially in the center of the Field? Current position, yes. But initially, no. So, even though it'll be a bit of a walk, I still think we're looking at a tower/coaster combo.
They could have had a number of different plans it iterations. Initially they could have been planning to have the ride exit the station toward the festhaus and then start the lift hill. Then they decided they didn't want to do that and the plan was to go straight from the DF station with the lift hill. Then they changed their minds again and the new plan moved the lift hill Crest to closer to Verbolten.

I will say that personally I don't think that they moved the highest point in an effort to move away from KM but more so in the natural evolution of the attraction. Now they are presenting it to KM as a look we want to minimize the impact to you so we moved it further away.
 
Mar 16, 2016
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As I said, I don't know how much time transpired between whatever KM/BGW meeting and the JCC hearing. It sounds like a short timeframe.
The one thing I’ll say on this is it could have been much calmer and had everyone understand better if they just got up and said when they got the notice and how much time it gave them.
 
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GrandpaD

Grumpy Ol' Man
Aug 3, 2017
1,588
3,202
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Newport News, VA
They could have had a number of different plans it iterations. Initially they could have been planning to have the ride exit the station toward the festhaus and then start the lift hill. Then they decided they didn't want to do that and the plan was to go straight from the DF station with the lift hill. Then they changed their minds again and the new plan moved the lift hill Crest to closer to Verbolten.
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Using DF as a "model", I guess (based on your analysis) they could use the DF station but instead of going right (looking at the pic) they go left under a similar queue bridge and then up towards the Rhine side of the snack bar (taco stand) parallel to the Verbolten building. DF was 150ft, so you can imagine how deep into the trees they'd have to go.
 
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I think the new high point location would be extremely out of place for a tower unless part of a new area. Also does it really make sense to add two decent attractions in one year as opposed to spreading them and getting a boost multiple years? Maybe it does if you can get a package deal. SWT has gotten multiple rides in a year, but I believe they were flats. Just my ponderings.

Also I love that picture. That was so incredible looking. The blue and red together! I also really miss that Bavarian village!!
 
Reactions: RKRCC
Aug 9, 2016
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My husband and I are thinking about going to the next JCC meeting to speak in favor of this Project. BGW has such a positive impact on tourism and for the entire region as a whole (from Hampton Roads all the way up to DC). I would hate for a few "Not in My Backyard" type people cause this project to change or put such unrealistic limitations on this project that BGW may cancel it all together. What in the world do some people expect when they move into a neighborhood directly beside a 400 +/- acre amusement park?!?!?!
 
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My husband and I are thinking about going to the next JCC meeting to speak in favor of this Project. BGW has such a positive impact on tourism and for the entire region as a whole (from Hampton Roads all the way up to DC). I would hate for a few "Not in My Backyard" type people cause this project to change or put such unrealistic limitations on this project that BGW may cancel it all together. What in the world do some people expect when they move into a neighborhood directly beside a 400 +/- acre amusement park?!?!?!
I think it would be awesome if we could get a ton of people to show up like this. Drown out kingsmill with sheer numbers.
 
Apr 9, 2013
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I think it would be awesome if we could get a ton of people to show up like this. Drown out kingsmill with sheer numbers.

Meh. Im with ya, but it would be hard to get people to take time out of their life to go express in a public forum how excited they are about a potential project off in the distant future no one knows anything about.
 
Jul 31, 2017
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I remember when I brought up this subject back in March that Kingsmill had considerable influence on BGW's potential projects. There is a reason why I said that before...To really get this approved, more information is going to have to become public than BGW might normally want to disclose. Like everyone said, this next meeting should be very interesting...
 
Aug 21, 2016
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If you move to a place that is near a theme park that’s on you. You knew what you were going into. I get that noise can be an issue but it’s not your right to micro-manage everything that isn’t your property.
 
Jul 31, 2017
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If you move to a place that is near a theme park that’s on you. You knew what you were going into. I get that noise can be an issue but it’s not your right to micro-manage everything that isn’t your property.
I'm not fully disagreeing with you on that. My point is that Kingsmill always has and can use their influence on the park. It has always been a delicate balance between the two, even when ownership was under the same roof. I think the two will find common ground on this and ultimately move this thing forward. This is one of the first times in recent memory though where Kingsmill has played this card. My thinking is that the last two years of speculation without much information has irked Kingsmill.

Sure you can say that plenty of information exists through public records, filings, plans, etc., but nothing substantial, nor fully confirmed by the park has made them worry. If you think about it, from Kingsmill's perspective, at one time, it looked like BGW could be adding two rides over 300' in less than a two year period... Obviously that's not going to happen but through those filings, certainly seemed possible.
 
Aug 23, 2017
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All they have to do is theme it after golf. The 355 ft lift can act as the tee shot, and each subsequent hill is a bounce of a ball, with the ride ending going into a tunnel signifying the cup. Paint the track green. The train can be white. Problem Solved!
Just use the supports as a frame for a driving range!
 
Reactions: belsaas
Feb 14, 2019
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View attachment 15562

Using DF as a "model", I guess (based on your analysis) they could use the DF station but instead of going right (looking at the pic) they go left under a similar queue bridge and then up towards the Rhine side of the snack bar (taco stand) parallel to the Verbolten building. DF was 150ft, so you can imagine how deep into the trees they'd have to go.

One thing that sticks out in my mind is lift hill angle assuming this is indeed a coaster - B&M sharpened that angle considerably between AC to Griffon to be able to stick that ride in a much more compact footprint.

According to Google Maps measurements, AC is roughly 390' in length from the bottom to the top of the lift, Griffon is 185'.

RCDB has AC at only 170' tall with the extra 40' on the drop coming from the ravine, Griffon likely is similar with the drop into the pit under the bridge - we can estimate at maybe 35' for the sake of argument. That gives us both heights at 170'.

SOHCAHTOA gives us the angle for AC's lift at 41°, Griffon at 74° - even with some adjustments to reflect actual heights, huge difference.

Even if it's a different manufacturer, the techniques are potentially out there to make it a possibility.

Assuming a launch - would it be possible to assume that the track leading into a potential tophat in that location could be at a higher elevation to not require as much space for the launching mechanism(s)?
 
Aug 21, 2016
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I brought this where it belonged. But this is not something to say this definitively this early. There were people saying MMXX was 100% not a coaster too.
The structure is described exactly like a tower. Plus if the height area was moved a few times that basically guarantees it’s not a giga coaster.
 

GrandpaD

Grumpy Ol' Man
Aug 3, 2017
1,588
3,202
113
Newport News, VA
@Jonesta6 Regarding your last paragraph about a launch - Google measurement of the launch portion of Red Force is approximately 470ft. That's to clear a 367ft top hat @ 112mph. If you started at the old DF station that same distance would be to the clearing of trees beyond the service road where a portion of DF was located.
 

b.mac

Other Parks Inc.
May 14, 2011
3,422
4,167
113
Someplace, Somewhere
According to Google Maps measurements, AC is roughly 390' in length from the bottom to the top of the lift, Griffon is 185'.

RCDB has AC at only 170' tall with the extra 40' on the drop coming from the ravine, Griffon likely is similar with the drop into the pit under the bridge - we can estimate at maybe 35' for the sake of argument. That gives us both heights at 170'.

SOHCAHTOA gives us the angle for AC's lift at 41°, Griffon at 74° - even with some adjustments to reflect actual heights, huge difference.
That math is wrong. If Apollo's lift base is 390 feet long and it's 170 feet tall the lift angle is 23.6 degrees. Griffon's would be 47.9 degrees.

B&M's giga coasters have had lift angles of 40 degrees, Intamin's have been at 50 degrees. The only company that has come feasibly close to breaking 300 feet with a beyond 50 degree lift is Gerstlauer with Karnan.
 
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