"Phönix" B&M Flying Coaster Concept

[Nicole]

My legs always feel much more secure in the B&Ms, and yes they get to the "flying" position in the station. I much prefer the B&Ms.

 

[AIR]

Actually as a matter of fact while I was trying to record an on-ride video No Limits crashed. I lost the whole park. I'm in the process of building it again...

Being that this is an old concept of mine, I found some old spec sheets I made on CAD for fun a couple years ago for train design (basically just the zero car) and the heartline design and building locations.

Oh and for the record, I've never ridden a flyer, Vekoma or B&M so I have no idea how popular something like this would be.

 

[Cthru3]

They're amazing. I think a lot of people get motion sickness a little faster on them though. The first time is a completely new sensation they feel (at least to me) more intense than the "normal" type.

 

[halfabee]

I've ridden both, and while the Vekoma experience is IMO more intense overall, the B&M embodiment makes far more sense to me. They thought it through, characteristically, and produced the better system. I have yet to know of a park that gets any kind of impressive throughput with the Vekoma station/train configuration.

My one gripe with the B&M flyer, on the other hand, is that the "lie-to-fly" pretzel loops are largely uninteresting to me -- save for the lingering headache they produce through the high-G portion of the element on the Six Flags Superman triplets. The bigger that element is, the easier I think it is to tolerate. (Not sure if I'll ever get to ride Flying Dinosaur, but that one looks massive.)

 

[Shane]

I have not had the chance to try a B&M yet.  I take from the video posted that they rotate you into position while in the station?  That was one of my complaints about Batwing is that you are laying down till the top off the lift hill and the flip and I never seem to be able to situated myse lf in what feels like a secure manner. The idea about having a chance to get comfortable and familiar with the the restraints before being up 100+ feet seems much more appealing to me.

They don't rotated per say. It starts off like you are boarding an Inverted coaster like Alpengiest and then the seats pull upward so that you are face down towards the ground before the train pulled out of the station. Vekoma had designed Batwing at SixFlags America to actually go into the laying position while on the lift hill as the machinery to do so was actually built into the ride vehicle, but the ride has consistently had problems with it so the park lowers the seats into position before dispatching the train.

Additionally, Batwing has a duel loading station, but they have not used the second side of it it since I've been going to the park. Firehawk at Kings Island also has a duel load station, but Firehawk does not have the mechanism to lay down while on the lift, it uses the same system as Nighthawk where a mechanical arm built into the station floor lowers the seats. Nighthawk at Carowinds was the original prototype and has a single load station.

 

[bill s]

Vekoma, without the intended delayed recline, results in too much time spent with feet above head. B&M results in too much time supporting your head. With both you can't see where you're going. Even if you had super neck muscles and no headrest, anything other than front row you would have feet in your face. I did like one thing about Superman @GrAdv, the pop of air going into the pretzel loop (before the crushing weight). Of course it's said there are better ones but I can't see overcoming that it's all very unnatural and uncomfortable, while it can be hilarious I'd rather have something you can enjoy over and over. The park already has one physically somewhat ridiculous novelty ride in Tempesto.

Nice NoLimits'ing though.

 

[AIR]

Here is a POV of my layout. I decided to nix the Bavarian village part in the second half for a couple reasons: The train is going way to fast for it to truly be appreciated, and I really didn't want to build it in the same fashion that I built the theater, maintenance bay, and station (out of supports).

 

[SLC Headache]

I must be in the minority that enjoys pretzel loops and prefers them over the Vekoma style flying loop. At the very least, it's less time lying down and more time in flying position. Other than that, you seem to have nailed the B&M flying style.

With [flying coasters] you can't see where you're going. Even if you had super neck muscles and no headrest, anything other than front row you would have feet in your face.

Eh, you could say that about B&M inverted vehicles too - nothing but the rows ahead of you in your face.

 

[bill s]

Eh, you could say that about B&M inverted vehicles too - nothing but the rows ahead of you in your face.

Yes, there about 12 seats in a dead zone, center seats on all but the front 2 rows. And with a crowd or riding with someone you may not have the choice of waiting for the next train. As long as you're not boxed in fully, it's still better than a flying coaster though (well, even then, but talking about view here). There is a certain thrill to inverteds that is different, and front is incredible, but overall I do think floorless could be seen as almost making inverts obsolete. Even avoiding those seats I find inverts more subjectively variable an experience than most coaster types. Vekoma inverts I also find almost as variable.

There was a company with an idea for a standing coaster where you leaned forward. According to them this is more evocative of actually flying and it does make sense.

 

[SLC Headache]

Eh, you could say that about B&M inverted vehicles too - nothing but the rows ahead of you in your face.

Yes, there about 12 seats in a dead zone, center seats on all but the front 2 rows. And with a crowd or riding with someone you may not have the choice of waiting for the next train. As long as you're not boxed in fully, it's still better than a flying coaster though (well, even then, but talking about view here). There is a certain thrill to inverteds that is different, and front is incredible, but overall I do think floorless could be seen as almost making inverts obsolete. Even avoiding those seats I find inverts more subjectively variable an experience than most coaster types. Vekoma inverts I also find almost as variable.

There was a company with an idea for a standing coaster where you leaned forward. According to them this is more evocative of actually flying and it does make sense.

Floorless coasters have the advantage of allowing for airtime that would put a lot of stress on inverted trains. The drop after the MCBR on Dominator is a good example if you don't get braked hard. But, inverteds can almost emulate swinging suspended coasters when done right. Silver Bullet's ending is a great example.

It's a shame the two-across inverts, with the exception of the standard layout Vekoma SLC, aren't more common. You don't get those obstructed views like on 4-across seating. I heard that the two non-standard SLCs in England, Kumali and Odyssey, are actually not bad, on par with a weaker B&M invert.

It's also a shame that the stand-up coaster only got really good with Riddler's Revenge and Georgia Scorcher.

 

[Hamptonian]

According to someone I know on the inside *scandalous* they're prepping the bitten house for a ride, so keep up the designs! Personally I would be suprised for a high speed launch in black forest that launches across the river. Up through Spain and back down or do inversions and the like on either side. But that's just based in the possible insider info I heard

 

[Coaster Takes]

According to someone I know on the inside *scandalous* they're prepping the bitten house for a ride, so keep up the designs! Personally I would be suprised for a high speed launch in black forest that launches across the river. Up through Spain and back down or do inversions and the like on either side. But that's just based in the possible insider info I heard

Don’t trust standard employee info. For example, I’ve been told this past year that alpengeist was going to be gutted and removed for a flying coaster. I’ll never look at the Roman Frieze unit supervisor the same.

 

[AIR]

After awhile of not working on this project, I've come up with a new update. It has turned more into Starry Sky Ripper with a pretzel loop (due to popular request) and the terrain section. I created a dedicated Black Forest Concert Amphitheater which fits better than the last one and is much larger to accommodate more guests and fills up the majority of Festhaus Park to use the space to the greatest advantage. Also, it blocks the view of Verbolten's effect building much like the Autobahn.

The layout is more or less the same, but unfortunately, I had to remove the corkscrew on the drop to make room for the new lift and transfer



I created a custom station which actually is the existing Drachen Fire station. To my surprise, according to No Limits 2 measurements, the existing station can house an 8-car long B&M Flyer train (just barely), which works great for saving infrastructure. But there is no dual station anymore.



The pretzel loop now takes place right after the lie-to-fly element, parallel to the railroad in the ravine. After that, the layout is the same as before. Might resurrect the village at the end but I'm not sure yet. I'm also going to attempt to create the entire Black Forest/Festhaus Bier Garten, which is part of the concept, along with all of this. I'll try to release more updates as major things are constructed.

 

[Zimmy]

Removal of the cork screw is good. Keep the drop pure, don't kill the vertical forces with roll or yaw.

 

[AIR]

The legend of the phoenix describes them as mythical, beautiful creatures made out of the ashes of their predecessors. So, born out of the flames and destruction of Drachen Fire comes the Phönix, a fiery, terrifying flying coaster coming to Busch Gardens Williamsburg! The beautiful layout of Phönix features intense, unique elements that are incredibly rare across the globe, making this likely the best flying coaster in the world.

I finally have a small update and a name for this that I believe could be marketable and likable after working on this for what feels like forever.

*note*
This concept was also designed at a time Festhaus Park was not slated to be used for "Project 2021". It has been altered slightly to make this a potential replacement for Project 2021 as a future attraction on the same site.

Located in the new Black Forest mini-hamlet of Oktoberfest, the ride and plaza will be located adjacent to the Festhaus and the new Festhaus Bier Garten, a beautiful beer garden serving snacks, local brews and wines as well as traditional German beers. Beyond the ride plaza is the entrance to the new Black Forest Special Event Venue with a concert theater and picnic pavilions. Guests enter the new areas from the new doors in the back of the Festhaus into the woods or on the side next to Die Autobahn bumper cars ride.

Phönix features electric blue/teal colored track and burnt red colored supports with golden yellow trains. This ride is meant to encapsulate the felling of flying in the grips of this mythical bird. The ride utilizes the same station and maintenance building used for Drachen Fire. This results in fairly short trains at seven cars per train, allowing them to quickly transition between elements boosting the intensity of the ride. Near the end of the ride, Phönix interacts with guest pathways, terrain, and the railroad so non-riders have a chance to experience the ride from the ground.

(Areas such as the theater and Festhaus Bier Garten are not shown in the pictures as this focuses very much on the ride itself.)

Some screenshots of the unfinished area in NoLimits 2:

















Of course, I love feedback! Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated! Thanks for reading the update!

 

[Jonesta6]

This is great - do you have an on-ride video from NL2 for this?

 

[AIR]

I don't have one yet for this layout. It's still incomplete and I'm working on it.

 

[halfabee]

Here are your logo and tagline, which I may or may not have suggested before.

No need to thank me.



(Edit: just messing around a bit, looking forward to see the final form of Phönix)

 

[AIR]

Here are the front and back seat videos for the Busch Gardens Williamsburg Flying Coaster concept, Phönix.
Sadly it is still unfinished and will likely remain that way. I have very little time to work on this anymore but this felt like there was enough to share with everyone. Hopefully everything works properly. Anyways, enjoy!


Ride Statistics:

Bolliger and Mabillard Flying Coaster
Three Trains, 7 cars per train, 4 abreast

Height - 40 m ~(130 ft)
Length - 1073 m ~(3520 ft)
Drop - 32 m ~(105 ft)
Speed - 87 km/hr ~(54 mph)
Inversions - 5 / 540 Roll (1.5), Vertical Loop (1), Lie to Fly (0.5), Pretzel Loop (1), Zero-g-Roll (1)
Other Elements - Single Station, 45 degree Lift, Overbanked Turns, Tunnel, 270 degree Helix, Brake Run


Front Seat Mounted View



Back Seat Flying View