Old Virginia B&M Hyper?

[CoasterAuditor]

I’m honestly surprised this isn’t a topic by itself already. I just noticed in one of Clint Novak’s videos about potential coasters KD could add that he stated rumors about KD wanting to add a B&M hyper in the dinosaurs alive land eventually. I don’t know what his sources are or anything I figure Clint knows “somebody” at KD but again I have no idea where he draws that rumor otherwise.

I’ve long been somebody that figured the odds of this happening at KD were minimal but given CFs track record and KDs 2nd tallest coaster is 157 feet it’s not that surprising they want to consider it especially if it’s a response to Busch being aggressive with new attractions and wanting to steal the tallest in the state record back from them or just because they want a B&M Hyper to be part of the KD experience. Personally I hope this rumor is true after riding Mako and Candymonium this year.

Does anyone else know more about this? There’s no need to bring up ACs proximity we’ve all discussed this several times and ostensibly KD would be willing to overlook that. The ride would likely be different enough from AC that most average people wouldn’t give two shits. I’m mostly curious if there is any substance to this particular rumor.

Also I’ll go ahead for a group on here: “noooooo grizzlys treeeeeeeeeeees 😭” if true of course!

 

[Jonesta6]

Curious what layout is envisioned if it were to exist. One thing about AC is it makes use of terrain where, unless I'm mistaken, KD doesn't have the same diversity of terrains - just a relatively flat set of woods.

 

[mtpelepele]

I'd still rather have a mine train on that land.

 

[Unagi]

Don't see it happening if Cedar Fair is sticking to their guns about reinvesting into their top performing parks, which KD is not a part of. A B&M hyper is very expensive especially with the price of steel nowadays and they may never see a return on investment with it. As far as AC's proximity goes, BGW could still have a regional exclusivity contract for their B&Ms which would prevent KD from getting one in the first place.

 

[Zachary]

I know this has been a popular "rumor" for AGES, but at least for as long as I've had reliable sources inside KD, I've never been made aware of any actual concepts that match said rumor.

I like the idea of a hyper at KD—particularly in Old Virginia and visible from 95. That said, as I've been saying for a long while now, Old Virginia isn't the target of any planned Cap-Ex anytime soon. KD is all in on Jungle X-pedition right now and that is where you can expect addition plans to continue to materialize for the foreseeable future.

 

[mwhinva]

I think Old Va could support another coaster without major disruption to the area. But, that would be the limit for the west side of the park. Old Va would never house a concentration of coasters like in the revamped X-pedition area on the east side of the park.

The next 2-3 years seems to be on the Whey Foundation and their "discoveries". By the time KD is done with the east side of the park, I would not be surprised if it will be the waterpark's turn again to get another new slide tower or two.

Looking into the near future, I could see a flat ride package in the former Dino's Alive area in Old Va. I would not be surprised if KD has some tweaks/refurbs/attractions for CAG in the next 4-5 years.

 

[cschnizer]

As much as I would like to see a new attraction there, isn’t the old Dino path used for a Haunt maze now? And about the B&M contract, it was mentioned in another thread that the radius goes from the center of BGW to the outermost edge of KD. Is that the northernmost or southernmost tip of KD property?

 

[CoasterAuditor]

@Zachary thanks for giving input. That is disappointing there is no apparent substance oh well!

 

[Jonesta6]

As much as I would like to see a new attraction there, isn’t the old Dino path used for a Haunt maze now?

They can make a Haunt maze/house out of pretty much anything, so any new construction can be planned around and I'd guess wouldn't be a major concern. Tbh, it'd be interesting if they used part of Soak City for Haunt though that'd probably be cost prohibitive/too logistically challenging.

But to points made above, unlikely that manufacturer and that particular ride model would go in this location if in the park at all.

 

[Dogface]

As much as I would like to see a new attraction there, isn’t the old Dino path used for a Haunt maze now? And about the B&M contract, it was mentioned in another thread that the radius goes from the center of BGW to the outermost edge of KD. Is that the northernmost or southernmost tip of KD property?

The most boring maze of my life haha. I was shocked at the disparity between the witch maze vs the bayou. Surely they can put something with actual permanence back there, even if it is just a rebuffed haunt area

 

[super7]

This rumor probably is based on the never realized plans to expand Old Virginia in a loop behind the theatre. Thst included a Morgan hyper coaster.

I’m glad that never materialized. The bank of trees in Old Virginia berms the park from the reality of I95. A hyper in that area would totally destroy that, given the mass deforestation of Diamondback at Kings Island.

Enough damage has been done to that area between the trees cut when Hurler was crammed against Grizzly, the awful go karts, Dinosaurs Alive paths and when Cedar Fair removed the trees from the center of Grizzly’s first turn around

I second the thought that the area would be great for a mine train. It could intertwine with the rafts and keep the area intact.

The next major addition will go where the Lost World was. It’s a barren piece of land prime for that. And that’s no where in sight right now. So a coaster that would require a lot of tree removal probably isn’t coming anytime soon

 

[Unagi]

And about the B&M contract, it was mentioned in another thread that the radius goes from the center of BGW to the outermost edge of KD.

The exclusivity contract covered around 200 miles from BGW which included KD and SFA.

 

[RollyCoaster]

*removed first paragraph for confidentiality*

If Covid was a thing 6 months earlier than it hit us, we very, very likely wouldn’t have Tumbili right now. Some of the cancelled projects through Cedar Fair are a big chunk of why we’re getting a whole area refresh with Jungle X-Pedition as we know it.

The attendance goal this year is very close to an optimistic 3 million. Hitting this goal would play a really big role in KD’s future. With an earlier start to the season, and an expected increase in hours towards the end of the season, I’m hopeful it can get done. This is a really, really big year for the park. I wish I could speak more on specifics at this time but I really can’t. There’s a lot of variables in play that aren’t worth losing credibility over.

 

[b.mac]

I know back in the Paramount days there were talks of putting in a Morgan behind Grizzly (pre-Hurler days here) but it never came to be. Besides that I've never heard of any proper discussion about the park getting a hypercoaster of any kind in the Cedar Fair era simply because they already have i305.

 

[b.mac]

The attendance goal this year is very close to an optimistic 3 million. Hitting this goal would play a really big role in KD’s future. With an earlier start to the season, and an expected increase in hours towards the end of the season, I’m hopeful it can get done. This is a really, really big year for the park. I wish I could speak more on specifics at this time but I really can’t. There’s a lot of variables in play that aren’t worth losing credibility over.

Are they out of their mind? They were optimistic that Twisted Timbers and Winterfest would push them past 2 million and they're expecting to whole hat jump 1+ million visitors in a single season? Maybe at the end of all this 5 year plan stuff they're planning but if they're expecting to bring in 3 million people in just a single season after COVID I need to find who's supplying them the funny stuff.

 

[mwhinva]

The most boring maze of my life haha. I was shocked at the disparity between the witch maze vs the bayou. Surely they can put something with actual permanence back there, even if it is just a rebuffed haunt area

Grimm Woods, in my opinion, is a work in progress. Probably due to budget and staffing constraints in 2021, they ended up constructing 3 of the 5 Grimm stories the park had initially narrowed down for this Haunt attraction.

Don't be surprised, in the next couple years, if KD adds 2-3 more stories to Grimm Woods. Also, I think the stories that currently exist in the attraction will be tweaked, enhanced, and added to with additional props, added/modified lighting, sound effects, character staffing, etc.

I thought it was well done for a new type of Haunt attraction in its first year. The only critique I had was there was not enough theatrical lighting for the very detailed sets that KD had created and that was a shame given the amount of work the creative department had put into them.

Like the wolves in the little red riding hood story; a few had intermittant flashes of light shone on them (2-3 seconds on / 15-20 seconds off). I liked the lighting effect. But, barely half were lit in that manner. I'm not sure if the other wolves had lighting and it was not working or they were not lit period. I did not notice several wolves until I was past the scene on the return portion of the pathway. I said to myself it was a shame half the props were not noticed until after you walked past the scene.

Remember, this style of a walking path Haunt attraction is new to KD. You don't know what works and what doesn't until you make an initial attempt.

What I got out of that area being used for a Haunt attraction:

1. The site is very DARK! That is a good thing. But, you really have to focus on the theatrical lighting to bring out the best in the detailed set pieces; they need to make sure all the lighting is working before the attraction opens in the evening and that the lighting is adequate for the scene.
2. Stay away from harsh, bright spotlight style of lighting! That would be a disaster for Grimm Woods. Having brighter lighting for the huge set pieces in some scenes was not a problem, the light was diffuse and those scenes looked great with the dark background of the woods.
3. Pacing - the pacing did seem to be off for me and sometimes I wonder if that was due to the site being able to hold at least 5 Grimm stories. But, the circumstances allowed only for 3 stories for 2021. I think KD had to spread out the existing story scenes more than they originally planned. Even then, there were a couple major gaps along the path. I think this issue will be resolved when a couple more Grimm stories are added in the future. It would allow each story area to be more concentrated to a better overall effect. And the gaps would be eliminated.

 

[rswashdc]

If KD wants a huge jump in attendance, it’s going to need Haunt-like events, shows, and attractions such as food and beer/wine that draw out huge crowds. Coasters can make some increase, but there honestly isn’t a coaster model out there anymore that will move attendance numbers in a meaningful way unless they want to go the Universal route in terms of budget/theming. Coaster investments now are really for maintaining attendance they have and not losing baseline customers elsewhere.

 

[mwhinva]

Doesn’t add much to conversation, but I thought I’d 2nd what Zach said. All capital expansion right now compared with what I shared with Zach almost 2 years ago now is almost identical to what it was with the 5 year plan appearing to focus mostly on refurb projects, a water park project, and a $10,000,000 mystery “Volcano” project that got pushed back 2 more years after covid really got bad.

If Covid was a thing 6 months earlier than it hit us, we very, very likely wouldn’t have Tumbili right now. Some of the cancelled projects through Cedar Fair are a big chunk of why we’re getting a whole area refresh with Jungle X-Pedition as we know it.

The attendance goal this year is very close to an optimistic 3 million. Hitting this goal would play a really big role in KD’s future. With an earlier start to the season, and an expected increase in hours towards the end of the season, I’m hopeful it can get done. This is a really, really big year for the park. I wish I could speak more on specifics at this time but I really can’t. There’s a lot of variables in play that aren’t worth losing credibility over.

Someone is blowing smoke out of their rear-end if they think 3 million attendance in one year is achievable. Not with the current state of the park

From my understanding, KD's highest yearly attendance was between 2.1 and 2.2 million visitors in the mid to late 1980's. Since the Paramount takeover in 1993, KD has only broke the 2 million attendance mark a couple of times, mainly in the early 1990's, The park seems to be averaging 1.75 to 1.95 million visitors over the last 25 years. A more realistic goal is to break back over 2 million visitors for 2022.

Unless Cedar Fair is going to invest 100 million plus in KD over, say a 2-3 year period, a 3 million attendance figure for one year is some corporate number cruncher's wet dream.

 

[bill s]

The one I heard was a Chance GT-X Hyper, which is a lot smaller, but more rapidfire. I have a feeling these ceased to be "cheap" after the prototype though. Again probably a wish not a plan.

 

[CoasterAuditor]

All of this info has been very enlightening. I wonder how the B&M Hyper rumor started maybe somebody floated the idea one day at the office but it ended there? I mean I guess it’s reasonable to kind of speculate it as a possibility just based off of Cedar Fair liking to purchase the model in general.

I certainly don’t think KD necessarily NEEDS a B&M Hyper specifically but I do think in terms of coasters it needs some kind of smooth crowd pleaser. It seems like I hear a lot of comments from guests in the park that “Dominator is the best one” which is an opinion I find amusing in a park with 2 top 15s per algorithms. Just goes to show the correlation between “more appealing to enthusiasts” and “more appealing to general humans” splits after a certain point in aggressiveness of the layout.

I’m glad that Morgan hyper never came I haven’t really cared much for the two I’ve ridden (Steel Force and Steel Eel). They were fun don’t get me wrong I definitely did not care for Steel Eel slamming me into the seat at the bottom of its hills.

If the estimate for the Volcano replacement is $10m I feel like that rules out a Mack launcher since Copperhead was $54 million. Price tag isn’t necessarily something that identifies how good a ride is. Either way I’m very excited to see what KD looks like the next 5 years. I feel like our VA parks are making some nice improvements right now (well in terms of “rides” at BGW for sure not so much some other things).

EDIT: Item of note after some brief research…..Monster at Adventureland cost $9 million. I guess we can discuss that piece in the volcano replacement thread.