I'm way too tired to read this whole thread (no offense to the posters), but did anyone bring up Deadline yet?
New France and Alien Invasions
- Thread starter DrMoneyReturns
- Start date
BBW said:
I think you have a really well constructed post here, but I really, really take issue with this statement. In an industry of superhero themed roller coasters and really just countless corporate tie-ins in just about every area, Busch Gardens has avoided going that route. "Verbolten" could have just as easily been "Verbolkswagen." They could have done that...but they didn't.
I can appreciate people not liking the direction the park has gone with some of its entertainment, themeing, branding decisions the past few years, but quite frankly I find the "I wouldn't put it past the park to..." attitude to be an insult to the park. They should be commended for staying away from blatant commercialism as much as they have instead of being slammed for dipping their toe in the water every once in awhile.
My point re Deadline: A well done, completely off-theme attraction (i.e. the UFO scenario). It was insanely popular. Some called the best HOS house in the park's history. Maybe that should give some insight to the original question here?
Deadline had a relevant theme being a subway under Italy, it is just modern day Italy and it follows theme very well for a modern house.
Shafor said:
I wonder if you've touched upon a dividing line underlying this whole ongoing conflict: some of us have been so disappointed that we "wouldn't put it past them" to build a UFO in New France, while others think it'd never happen in a million years. If you aren't worried that they're going to do something crazy, you're less likely to take issue with all the little mistakes and missteps. If, however, you think this "UFO" might be just around the corner (like real UFOs), every little thing looks like a sign of the impending doom.
I think as long as its well themed, doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, then I can at least deal with it, but if it is crappily themed, and stands out terribly then yes it is a terrible thing.
Griffon at least flows with the skyline and looks decent, but yes it could use better theming and blending in.
Cool Doctor Money said:
I think this probably sums it up. Only thing is I honestly don't see any evidence to support the "wouldn't put it past them" side of the argument and believing that a UFO attraction would be right around the corner (see my post for why
). The park has made a TON of changes the past 5 years or so, big and small. Some popular (Verbolten, CT) some not (Entwined, EITA) and perhaps people can make legitimate arguments about the general tone of the park changing to lean toward a more generic, amusement-parkish look (like the Oktoberfest scheme or the bowling shirts), but to take that and leap all the way to the idea that the park building some generic, permanent, commercial, mainstream, pop culture attraction right in the middle of one of the hamlets is just ridiculous IMO.
I mean, look at how the park handled the integration of a Sesame Street attraction (probably the closest example you could make to support this argument). FOF is off the beaten path. It's at a dead end part of the park. You have to cross railroad tracks to get to it. The entire length of it that would be exposed on the Pompeii walkway is blocked from view by a giant privacy fence. The attractions themselves give nods to the theming in the park: The castle stage (Royal Palace), "Prince" Elmo's Spire (England), Bert and Ernie's Loch Adventure (Scotland), Grover's Alpine Express (Alpengeist), Oscar's Yucky Forest (Black Forest?), etc. The two (now only one) Sesame attractions outside of FOF, are in country themed enclosures with minimal signage. You don't see Elmo running around England or Ireland or have Sesame merchandise carts scattered all over the park, etc. This is how the park (recently) handled the integration of a MAJOR commercial attraction. They bent over backwards to ensure that it did not interfere with the park's core theming mission. (For those of you who hate the Elmo stuff, think about that. Imagine what the park could have done with it.)
How you can look at that argument (and how the park handled temporary attractions like Deadline, or Ramp Jam) and make the case that it would be reasonable to expect a UFO attraction in New France "right around the corner" and that "you wouldn't put it past them" is, to me...stunning.
Again, I respect (and often agree) with a lot of the concerns expressed here by some of the purists, but when you get into these reductio ad absurdum scenarios (Ramp Jam = UFO), you just lose me. I don't think they help your case. At all.
As a permanent attraction, an alien spaceship themed ride/attraction, no matter how well-done as an alien themed attraction, just doesn't fit with the overall theme and I wouldn't support it. Now if the park could somehow incorporate it into the New France theme and make it work, then I'd change my mind.
As a temporarry attraction like a HOS maze, I'd definitely support it though.
An alien-themed attraction works at parks like Kings Island and Cedar Point because there is no consistent theme to work with. An alien theme would work at certain Disney parks (Magic Kingdom, Epcot, MGM), but not others (Animal Kingdom, DisneySEA) unless Disney figures out a way to work it in with the overarching theme.
Europe in the Air is still in an Irish-looking castle so the outside blends in well. The ride is still poorly done though, but it fits with the European theme regardless. I have no problem with dining with characters in COS. I'd prefer a show, but then again, "Dine with Characters" events are very popular at other parks and are a great way to make money.
I don't really like the glow stand in Italy. There are far better places to put it so it doesn't interfere with the theme. Even that small plaza outside Verbolten is a much better spot than the grape-stomping photo op. The bubble machine is cool though, I'll admit.
I have no problems with Ramp Jam or the concerts. I actually think those are a great way to bring people through the gate.
Forest of Fun - I think Safari of Fun is executed better and Forest still has its flaws, but the rides/attractions tie in with the European theme. As for Pirates: I'd say Pirates is a pretty dated show, so replacing it with something (even Elmo) different is a great change of pace. I know Tampa uses both Pirates and Sesame in the same theater.
As a temporarry attraction like a HOS maze, I'd definitely support it though.
An alien-themed attraction works at parks like Kings Island and Cedar Point because there is no consistent theme to work with. An alien theme would work at certain Disney parks (Magic Kingdom, Epcot, MGM), but not others (Animal Kingdom, DisneySEA) unless Disney figures out a way to work it in with the overarching theme.
Europe in the Air is still in an Irish-looking castle so the outside blends in well. The ride is still poorly done though, but it fits with the European theme regardless. I have no problem with dining with characters in COS. I'd prefer a show, but then again, "Dine with Characters" events are very popular at other parks and are a great way to make money.
I don't really like the glow stand in Italy. There are far better places to put it so it doesn't interfere with the theme. Even that small plaza outside Verbolten is a much better spot than the grape-stomping photo op. The bubble machine is cool though, I'll admit.
I have no problems with Ramp Jam or the concerts. I actually think those are a great way to bring people through the gate.
Forest of Fun - I think Safari of Fun is executed better and Forest still has its flaws, but the rides/attractions tie in with the European theme. As for Pirates: I'd say Pirates is a pretty dated show, so replacing it with something (even Elmo) different is a great change of pace. I know Tampa uses both Pirates and Sesame in the same theater.
Shafor said:
It really gives me hope that in your considered opinion, my worries are silly and an insult to the park! I really would prefer to be wrong here.
I think, too, that Dr. Money is right that those of us who think this is a possibility, however remote, are sort of primed to think that right now due to some of the recent disappointing changes.
Still, though, I think cohesive themeing will only hold up as long as, and to the extent that, it is seen as the best way to make money via the park.
I'm in the "this situation is preposterous" camp. I like change as long as it fits in. A UFO wouldn't really fit in anywhere except the black forest.