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What I find interesting is in Florida they could open up everything 100%but they choose not to.....more specifically its it that their union agreement does not let them and this is a bargining tool. Unless the union agrees to renegociate the terms of the previous covid agreement and allow less or no distancing requitremnts, highter capacity, and other measures be removed or changed that they have no choice but to let people go.
 
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WDWRLD said:
What I find interesting is in Florida they could open up everything 100%but they choose not to.....more specifically its it that their union agreement does not let them and this is a bargining tool. Unless the union agrees to renegociate the terms of the previous covid agreement and allow less or no distancing requitremnts, highter capacity, and other measures be removed or changed that they have no choice but to let people go.
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So you're going to bypass blame of a company who couldn't manage a massive golden egg for 6 months and go straight to 'lolz Newsom and the unions sure fucked this up.'

Disney received a $6B bailout plus the federal government allowed them to furlough their workforce under the CARES act over the Summer. Yet they couldn't take care of these people for 6 months after a massive bipartisan pampering from our government. Where the fuck did that money go?

I assume both Newsom and the unions were operating under some pretense of keeping people safe (I'm sure some nefarious shit was going on behind the scenes but we'll never know). And believe me - I'm not saying Governor Newsom isn't an asshat. I can't stand him, personally. There is some blame to be levied his way.

But dude, come on, you have to at least reserve some sort of skepticism, and maybe even a touch of ire, for the company holding the money bag, right? It's not like Disney is going broke. Jesus, this news only hit their stocks by a loss of 2 dollars per share.
 
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UncleDuncan said:
So you're going to bypass blame of a company who couldn't manage a massive golden egg for 6 months and go straight to 'lolz Newsom and the unions sure fucked this up.'

Disney received a $6B bailout plus the federal government allowed them to furlough their workforce under the CARES act over the Summer. Yet they couldn't take care of these people for 6 months after a massive bipartisan pampering from our government. Where the fuck did that money go?

I assume both Newsom and the unions were operating under some pretense of keeping people safe (I'm sure some nefarious shit was going on behind the scenes but we'll never know). And believe me - I'm not saying Governor Newsom isn't an asshat. I can't stand him, personally. There is some blame to be levied his way.

But dude, come on, you have to at least reserve some sort of skepticism, and maybe even a touch of ire, for the company holding the money bag, right? It's not like Disney is going broke. Jesus, this news only hit their stocks by a loss of 2 dollars per share.
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Do you have a source on the government bailout? I've been looking and can't find anything. The closest thing I could find was that they raised $6 billion in a debt offering, but no mention of them actually receiving a bailout front the government.

Let's not forget that Disney had a loss of $4.72 billion in the previous quarter and it looks like it will probably continue. Even though they furloughed a lot of people, they continued to pay for their health insurance which added a lot of cost.
 
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The debt offering is a bailout in disguise. Who do you think bought the debt promissory notes from big business? We did.


It's effectively a government backed loan but doesn't look like one so it doesn't piss people off. Taxpayers are on the hook if they default; and Wall Street gets the cash on hand now with effectivrly no oversight. Oh. And if corporations mess up the pay off, The Fed will bail them out again (it's in the article).
 
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Steering this back to the parks, some blame has to be put on Disney's operational choices here in my opinion. Plenty of other California parks have found ways to do limited, profitable reopenings (Knott's, Discovery Kingdom, SeaWorld, etc.) Will business be booming? No. Is employing some cast members, entertaining some guests, and turning some profit massively better than not doing those things? Yes.

Disney should have been significantly more creative months ago like their competitors have been—they might not be up such a creek right now if they had.

DISCLAIMER: I think California's current parks policy is garbage and should be revised. That said, Disney could and should have saved some of these jobs and some of these losses regardless by means of special offerings as we've seen from their neighbors.
 
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UncleDuncan said:
So you're going to bypass blame of a company who couldn't manage a massive golden egg for 6 months and go straight to 'lolz Newsom and the unions sure fucked this up.'

Disney received a $6B bailout plus the federal government allowed them to furlough their workforce under the CARES act over the Summer. Yet they couldn't take care of these people for 6 months after a massive bipartisan pampering from our government. Where the fuck did that money go?

I assume both Newsom and the unions were operating under some pretense of keeping people safe (I'm sure some nefarious shit was going on behind the scenes but we'll never know). And believe me - I'm not saying Governor Newsom isn't an asshat. I can't stand him, personally. There is some blame to be levied his way.

But dude, come on, you have to at least reserve some sort of skepticism, and maybe even a touch of ire, for the company holding the money bag, right? It's not like Disney is going broke. Jesus, this news only hit their stocks by a loss of 2 dollars per share.
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My point was more of a question but it didnt come off that way. What I was trying to say/ask is at least in Florida that could open way more than they are. Parks and resorts that are open are packed. Its very hard to get dining reservations, bus lines are long so on and so on. Isnt the agreement between Disney and the Union that they have to keep certain limits in place no matter what the government says? Such as facemasks (that fine I can deal with that), social distancing, limits on capacity or shows, dining, busses...basically everything. What if they could ease those restrictions and get more people to visit? Would more visitors mean more money and more needed cast members? Months ago I saw a few cast members who I know on FB posting they are ready to go to work and think that the protections Disney had in place they were happy with but that they couldnt because their union had not come to a agreememt to return to work.
Basically im say is this Disneys way of squeezing the union to renegociate to get their union employees back to work? Same in California, hoping that the union and cast members in general put the heat on Newsome to allow them to reopen with a higher capacity?
 
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WDWRLD said:
My point was more of a question but it didnt come off that way. What I was trying to say/ask is at least in Florida that could open way more than they are. Parks and resorts that are open are packed. Its very hard to get dining reservations, bus lines are long so on and so on. Isnt the agreement between Disney and the Union that they have to keep certain limits in place no matter what the government says? Such as facemasks (that fine I can deal with that), social distancing, limits on capacity or shows, dining, busses...basically everything. What if they could ease those restrictions and get more people to visit? Would more visitors mean more money and more needed cast members? Months ago I saw a few cast members who I know on FB posting they are ready to go to work and think that the protections Disney had in place they were happy with but that they couldnt because their union had not come to a agreememt to return to work.
Basically im say is this Disneys way of squeezing the union to renegociate to get their union employees back to work? Same in California, hoping that the union and cast members in general put the heat on Newsome to allow them to reopen with a higher capacity?
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Those are good questions. I think Disney is playing hardball politically because they're in a position to do so (I don't feel like derailing this thread anymore with why I think they're in that position - they just are). And again, I think Newsom is a dipshit of the highest order; sitting by and not doing anything puts him in a place of being reactive. He could have gotten in front of this months ago. The unions are a different issue because from what I've read, they were trying to operate from a place of keeping their members safe.

But besides all that, the real problem overlooked in all the coverage I've seen is this: even if all the restrictions lifted, we're never going back to full capacity. Not for a long time. The economic hardship for average people, including regular parkgoers, is only now getting started. Those jobs, of what percentage we'll never know, were never coming back. Even if everyone were to be on the same page (union, parent company, employee). My guess is more layoffs are to come.

And all this is leaving out the X factor of opening the parks to 100% and what happens if/when we start narrowing down infections spreading within the park. How do you put the sausage back through the meatgrinder? I don't think you can.
 
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Capacity is not determined by Union contracts. The only thing that the union contracts would cover is PPE (Masks, Face Shields) and maybe but most likely not plexiglass barriers and physical distancing.

Disney even said the main reason for not going back to full operations is due to CDC guidelines and other health officials. They are ignoring the politics and the governor and sticking to the health guidelines that have been issued. Disney made the commitment that if the CDC and other health organizations were to loosen their guidelines, they would make the appropriate changes. They are quite literally trying to avoid shutting down again or being the epicenter of a super spreader event and being extremely cautious with reopening.

EDIT: The only union that had fought with Disney hard over protections was the performers union for live shows. They wanted Disney to provide testing for their union members as well as permit them to wear masks while in character. Disney's rebuttal was that the other unions didn't fight for it, so it clearly isn't necessary. The issue was mostly resolved when the state of Florida decided to use a piece of Disney's property to offer free testing to the public.
 
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