I just hope it gets a Cajun restaurant to go with it.
News Magic Kingdom Project 2024: Tiana’s Bayou Adventure
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I feel Frozen Ever After fits in Norway actually fairly fine. Theming-wise, the movie does take tons of inspiration from Norway, so it really isn't that much of a stretch. I am still trying to understand why Frozen Ever After doesn't fit theme? I suppose I can understand not wanting to replace a 'cult classic' of rides, but theming isn't a strong argument.
As for this, to disregard the theming goes against what Disney specializes in. This is the same company that has put out amazing incredibly detailed and themed lands recently like Galaxy's Edge, Toy Story Land, and Pandora. All of these lands were so meticulously planned out and show the extreme care Disney puts into the theme of their parks and rides. It just feels so awkward and strange that they would abandon that philosophy so quick.
I would much rather them replace Hall of Presidents with Princess and the Frog. As I said previously, Liberty Square is a more fitting location for the ride, especially if there were some way to place it right aside the Haunted Mansion.
I'm not trying to 'nitpick' anything. I am pointing out a major criticism from many people who all care about Disney's (apparently forgotten and dismissed) care of attention to detail and theming. As I said, they have shown that this type of planning for a rushed reimagining of a ride is just not characteristic of their work or style. This is what worries me most. They don't seem to be putting in the same care that they would with other attractions.
I'm all for adding new attractions and things that showcase people of color. I so desperately want them to place a true Aladdin ride in Morocco. Something along the lines where you fly through the air, going through Agrabah and the movie's story possibly using a similar ride system like Peter Pan's Flight, but I think another trackless ride would be more likely.
As for this, to disregard the theming goes against what Disney specializes in. This is the same company that has put out amazing incredibly detailed and themed lands recently like Galaxy's Edge, Toy Story Land, and Pandora. All of these lands were so meticulously planned out and show the extreme care Disney puts into the theme of their parks and rides. It just feels so awkward and strange that they would abandon that philosophy so quick.
I would much rather them replace Hall of Presidents with Princess and the Frog. As I said previously, Liberty Square is a more fitting location for the ride, especially if there were some way to place it right aside the Haunted Mansion.
I'm not trying to 'nitpick' anything. I am pointing out a major criticism from many people who all care about Disney's (apparently forgotten and dismissed) care of attention to detail and theming. As I said, they have shown that this type of planning for a rushed reimagining of a ride is just not characteristic of their work or style. This is what worries me most. They don't seem to be putting in the same care that they would with other attractions.
I'm all for adding new attractions and things that showcase people of color. I so desperately want them to place a true Aladdin ride in Morocco. Something along the lines where you fly through the air, going through Agrabah and the movie's story possibly using a similar ride system like Peter Pan's Flight, but I think another trackless ride would be more likely.
I don't think wanting a cohesive thematic environment in a theme park is remotely elitist.
There are plenty of reasonable complaints regarding representation in Disney parks, but just shoving IP in places it doesn't thematically belong to solve the problem isn't a real solution at all—it's just pandering.
Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain, objectively, separates Big Thunder, Frontierland's biggest attraction and largest visual focal point, from the rest of the area. That puts Splash Mountain squarely inside of Frontierland. I can't imagine the outrage that would ensue from replacing Tomorrowland Speedway (which separates Tomorrowland from Space Mountain) with a random princess dark ride. Why is this any different?
Splash Mountain has long been a thematic problem in MK. I fail to see how Princess and the Frog doesn't make that problem worse. Why is it an issue to want Disney not to further degrade the thematic coherency of their parks when they plan new attractions?
And no, this isn't some round-about way to try to save Splash Mountain or defend it from an IP takeover. Frontierland is themed to the American West—take any Disney IP set there and retheme Splash Mountain at Magic Kingdom to that—you'll hear no objection from me.
Idea: Why isn't it themed to an episode of Woody's Roundup where Woody, Jessy, and Bullseye have to save guests from a dastardly plot by Stinky Pete? This was what I came up with in 30 seconds. Surely the huge team of people at Imagineering can do better?
There are plenty of reasonable complaints regarding representation in Disney parks, but just shoving IP in places it doesn't thematically belong to solve the problem isn't a real solution at all—it's just pandering.
Magic Kingdom's Splash Mountain, objectively, separates Big Thunder, Frontierland's biggest attraction and largest visual focal point, from the rest of the area. That puts Splash Mountain squarely inside of Frontierland. I can't imagine the outrage that would ensue from replacing Tomorrowland Speedway (which separates Tomorrowland from Space Mountain) with a random princess dark ride. Why is this any different?
Splash Mountain has long been a thematic problem in MK. I fail to see how Princess and the Frog doesn't make that problem worse. Why is it an issue to want Disney not to further degrade the thematic coherency of their parks when they plan new attractions?
And no, this isn't some round-about way to try to save Splash Mountain or defend it from an IP takeover. Frontierland is themed to the American West—take any Disney IP set there and retheme Splash Mountain at Magic Kingdom to that—you'll hear no objection from me.
Idea: Why isn't it themed to an episode of Woody's Roundup where Woody, Jessy, and Bullseye have to save guests from a dastardly plot by Stinky Pete? This was what I came up with in 30 seconds. Surely the huge team of people at Imagineering can do better?
I can not believe how stupid I am for not thinking of Woody when trying to find a western Disney icon. - Disney Imagineer - Also Me
Honestly, I can't believe I missed that. Especially considering if Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin can make the cut for Tomorrowland, Woody's Roundup should definitely fill the gap in Frontierland.
In Frozen's case I said it fits but nobody really wanted it. The biggest complaint against frozen when it was announced that it goes against Epcot, which was supposed to be based more in real world concepts rather than fantasy. Now it's more that the ride feels cheap. That's the comparison.
Disney themselves has been disregarding their own "rules" as it were for a while now. Epcot vs IPcot has been a source of problems for a while. The slow change of Hollywood studios from the old "ride the movies" and "get a look behind the scenes" to here's an in-depth land themed to one specific franchise. And Pandora as a whole being added to Animal Kingdom. All of these things were happening long before PatF overlay of Splash. All of these things were done by Disney, and for the most part they've done perfectly fine in the end, and nobody complains about it "not fitting" nearly as much as they did when it was announced. If they wanna put PatF in Frontierland so be it. It's a nitpick considering again what's already there, where up until this moment nobody's had a super hard opinion one way or the other on. So why does it matter now?
Also fucking miss me with Toy Story. I'm so tired of Toy Story. It has a whole themed land in Hollywood Studios, on top of space ranger spin. Toy Story legitimately does not need anything else.
Disney themselves has been disregarding their own "rules" as it were for a while now. Epcot vs IPcot has been a source of problems for a while. The slow change of Hollywood studios from the old "ride the movies" and "get a look behind the scenes" to here's an in-depth land themed to one specific franchise. And Pandora as a whole being added to Animal Kingdom. All of these things were happening long before PatF overlay of Splash. All of these things were done by Disney, and for the most part they've done perfectly fine in the end, and nobody complains about it "not fitting" nearly as much as they did when it was announced. If they wanna put PatF in Frontierland so be it. It's a nitpick considering again what's already there, where up until this moment nobody's had a super hard opinion one way or the other on. So why does it matter now?
Also fucking miss me with Toy Story. I'm so tired of Toy Story. It has a whole themed land in Hollywood Studios, on top of space ranger spin. Toy Story legitimately does not need anything else.
They lost theming credibility a few years ago when they shoved Tangled bathrooms between Small World and Haunted mansion! ?
Respectfully, what was the point of arguing that Splash Mountain is "close enough" to Adventureland? Is geographic proximity to a land really relevant when the attraction isn't actually located inside that land? Besides, New Orleans makes just as little sense in Adventureland.
I really dislike this thought process. Welcome to ParkFans. Nitpicking is what we do. We once spent a month arguing about a sundial in front of Escape from Pompeii. I want high standards of thematic consistency from Disney. The criticims of this addition aren't unique to Princess and the Frog because of the main character's appearance - we call it out every time it happens. That expectation for thematic consistency wasn't labeled as be labeled as "elitist" or "privileged" when we called out other additions that don't fit, and it shouldn't be different here just because of how the ride's character looks.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly it: I want a ride themed to this movie, but just not there. Frontierland, along with Tomorrowland before it became a thematic disaster of its own, is my favorite area at the Magic Kingdom. I love the suspension of disbelief and the ability to pretend I'm in a town of the wild west. An enchanted Louisiana bayou in the middle of the area detracts from that. Thematic consistency is what made Disney's parks famous in the first place, and for good reason. Heck, Magic Kingdom is built over a series of tunnels in part because Walt was frustrated with the thematic inconsistency of costumed cast members walking through the wrong area of the park. This addition is a slap in face to that guiding principle at the heart of the Disney parks.
Adding a Princess and the Frog ride to WDW isn't pandering. It's a great way to celebrate a great story, and getting more POC representation in the parks is a great bonus. But shoehorning the ride where it doesn't fit, just for the sake of increasing representation (as it seems you're advocating), might be pandering.
Funny enough, that was exactly my impression when I got off of Frozen Ever After: That was a great ride, but it doesn't make any sense here. As I alluded to earlier, look at Tomorrowland in its current state: you have a monster-themed comedy show, a meet-and-greet for an alien and his Hawaiian friend, a gas-powered car ride, a show about of 20th-century technology, and a super-hero dance party, among other things. The area really doesn't feel like a land of the future so much as it does a land of Disney IPs that didn't fit elsewhere in the park. Tomorrowland's immersion - its fantasy and believability - is dead. That's the problem with adding attractions that don't fit their surrounding area, and it's why I refuse to be complacent with the continuation of that trend - especially for a massive, high-profile attraction that encompasses much of its themed area.
For me, the best part of visiting a theme park, especially a Disney theme park, is the feeling of escape to a fantasy world - the feeling of make-believe that I'm visiting some turn-of-the-century city, some magical village, some wild west town. It's not the feeling of riding any one attraction that makes me fall in love with the idea of visiting theme parks. So that's why I'm happy to defend myself for criticizing the latest attraction to tear away at the thematic experience that has always made Disney parks so special.
Ok....so I understand the issues with Song of the South and the issues with Splash Mountain that come from it. But I really feeling the pandering that's going on with this to be honest. Like I said, I get it's got a bunch of issues.
But why not something like a Lone Ranger related ride? I get that movie wasn't great. I'm of the opinion the Princess and the Frog wasn't great either. Why not use Coco as the overlay and do a journey into the afterlife? Homeward Bound? I know it's not a perfect fit but Big Hero 6 is something worth getting a ride IMO.
But why not something like a Lone Ranger related ride? I get that movie wasn't great. I'm of the opinion the Princess and the Frog wasn't great either. Why not use Coco as the overlay and do a journey into the afterlife? Homeward Bound? I know it's not a perfect fit but Big Hero 6 is something worth getting a ride IMO.
Coco could fit the western aesthetic to a sense since, ya know, parts of the American West were once Mexican territories.
Coco is a fascinating option to be honest. Really like that solution a lot actually...
It's definitely not a PERFECT thematic match, but it's a far better solution than Splash Mountain or Princess and the Frog in my opinion.
It's definitely not a PERFECT thematic match, but it's a far better solution than Splash Mountain or Princess and the Frog in my opinion.
I think they could do something great with the outside that visually it doesn't change, but make the indoor portions just absolutely stunning.
@Applesauce I personally have no issues against adding IP, after all that seems to be what really drives people to these parks and in Epcot's case, it so desperately needs it.
Epcot in its current state with few attractions in the World Showcase, was in my opinion, a bit of a failure. It has become a shell of what it was supposed to be. There were major attractions planned for every pavilion. However, due to budget cuts and such, most attractions were scraped. Back in those times, more historically accurate non-IP ride might have been successful and grown into today; however, today IP draws the crowds and that is what will be needed for new attractions.
Personally, I think they can continue to keep to the World Showcase theme by keeping IP relevant to the county it is located in. I actually think the IP would give that extra little Disney touch to each pavilion and also make the World Showcase more than an over glorified international shopping and dining center.
Epcot in its current state with few attractions in the World Showcase, was in my opinion, a bit of a failure. It has become a shell of what it was supposed to be. There were major attractions planned for every pavilion. However, due to budget cuts and such, most attractions were scraped. Back in those times, more historically accurate non-IP ride might have been successful and grown into today; however, today IP draws the crowds and that is what will be needed for new attractions.
Personally, I think they can continue to keep to the World Showcase theme by keeping IP relevant to the county it is located in. I actually think the IP would give that extra little Disney touch to each pavilion and also make the World Showcase more than an over glorified international shopping and dining center.
Transition. It being near by Adventureland is a transitional feature for me. New Orleans makes about as much sense with Adventureland as the Caribbean mixed with Polynesian aesthetics plus Jungle Cruise and the Swiss Family Treehouse. But Splash is in Frontierland so it's moot point. I think its a nice transition is all.
I could do without the condescending tone, thanks. I've been on here long enough to know this is what you do. I was present for that whole exchange about Pompeii, although I don't think I ever replied.
PatF will still likely give you those high standards, very rarely does Disney drop the ball on those standards. And this whole thing maybe unrelated, however with everything else going on in the world, it does read that way. Along with the issue of, I'm seeing these theme comments not just here but in comments on other sites, except they include more thinly veiled racism along with the "But it doesn't fit thematically!!" It comes across as an excuse to not put the ride in as a whole than anything else. You saying it here and now without those connotations, and still reads as an excuse or reason not to put the ride in, despite the desperate need for more representation in the park, and to get rid of Splash's current theme.
While it shouldn't be different because of how she looks, it is different because of how she looks. Unfortunately the world is in that transitional stage again where people are gonna start doing things are painted as pandering to start moving towards the right side of history. Something has to start changing, and a big start is to remove a ride themed to a racist movie that's banned in the US, and replacing it with a ride themed to the heroine who is also the same race as the one previously belittled. It solves a problem the park had.
Ultimately we want and expect different things out of a theme park. I don't suspend my disbelief in the middle of a crowded pathway in the middle of a watered-down western themed area under the blazing Florida sun and high humidity. Nor do I in a space themed one. I am where I am, Frontierland, and area themed to the old west. and Ultimately I am unbothered by the idea of a ride themed to Princess and the Frog going into the same space, as there's literally no where else besides Fantasyland to put the ride in. Even if it was put in Liberty Square as @VonDerrick previously mentioned, people would still complain. There is no winning unless you put the ride in Fantasyland. So why not put it in Frontierland, its as good of spot as any.
I wasn't debating that out, I was using it as an example, to be clear. After the inclusion of Frozen in Epcot, I gave up on the idea of things having to perfectly match their surrounding area. As long as it at least adjacently fits and it's enjoyable, I'm cool with it. And it's made me a lot happier not to try and debate those nuances out, because that's where the high key theme park fans just their feathers ruffled about it, and I really don't need that in my life anymore.
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Ultimately at the end of the day, I'm still thrilled about this change. Tiana has been in my top 3 princesses since her release. My SiL (Who's black) got so excited she started crying, that her favorite princess was getting such a big attraction, and that her daughter will get to eventually ride the ride and see somebody who looks like her. And that's what matters to me. ?
My brother said that the WDW Splash should get PatF, while he wishes DL would change their's to Moana, although he understands why they'd both be PatF.
@Joe, I'm not sure why you're eye-rolling my post. I think its fair that ultimately this boils down to us wanting different things when it comes themeing and attractions. You explained your position. I explained mine. We're clearly not convincing each other of our points.
Doctor Facilier is one of my all-time favorite Disney villains and I'm worried that, since the ride takes place after the events of the movie, he won't be included. ?
I could see him appearing as a ghost of sorts, like the voodoo dolls at the beginning of the film. I hate making this comparison, but him making an appearance like Farquaad in Shrek 4D would honestly be pretty sick.
I’m gonna tackle several points of contention at once.
First, I totally understand the issue of not being Wild West themed, but are we really gonna act like Song of the South was western themed to begin with? For some reason it fit in Frontierland in my mind, and I don’t think this makes the problem any worse than it already was.
Second, I totally get and appreciate the choice of Princess and the Frog, but I think they should have gone with Pocahontas for the new theme. I think it would work at least as well, if not better.
Next, I think they will wait until 2023 at the earliest to change it. They don’t have the cash to do it now, and the definitely won’t do it during their 50th anniversary.
And lastly, I think they will keep the name splash mountain. As funny as it would be to have Splash Levee or splash Bayou, I think the name is too iconic and the name itself doesn’t have any ties to Song of the South.
First, I totally understand the issue of not being Wild West themed, but are we really gonna act like Song of the South was western themed to begin with? For some reason it fit in Frontierland in my mind, and I don’t think this makes the problem any worse than it already was.
Second, I totally get and appreciate the choice of Princess and the Frog, but I think they should have gone with Pocahontas for the new theme. I think it would work at least as well, if not better.
Next, I think they will wait until 2023 at the earliest to change it. They don’t have the cash to do it now, and the definitely won’t do it during their 50th anniversary.
And lastly, I think they will keep the name splash mountain. As funny as it would be to have Splash Levee or splash Bayou, I think the name is too iconic and the name itself doesn’t have any ties to Song of the South.