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KD is in a county with little tourism outside of the state fair and the few concerts held there (which would be interesting if they could work with promoters to host some of them at the park instead). Additionally, much of the tourist draw is for youth sports tournaments (mostly in Henrico and Chesterfield) or conventions/government work - these are mostly get in-get out affairs instead of vacations so there's not likely to be a huge tourist attendance at KD.

My daughter is telling everyone around us waiting in the queues at BGW how awesome KD is.
I remember someone from New York saying how they thought about stopping at KD for a day but ended up just driving by to get down to Williamsburg where they seem to have spent a whole week.
 
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I don’t expect anything more than the 2022 4D free spin, Volcano replacement, and the normal round of investments within the next 5 years. Unless attendance drastically increases as a result don’t expect 2 B&Ms or a Mack coaster within 5 years. Manufacturers like Vekoma and Gerstlauer can make high thrill rides without breaking CF and KD budget.
 
I visited KD yesterday and I haven't been back to BGW since mid June. As much as I wish KD was open longer, I believe the overall experience was better at KD due to what probably amounts to higher staffing availability. The crowd level was extremely light so that does improve the situation a bit.
 
I visited KD yesterday and I haven't been back to BGW since mid June. As much as I wish KD was open longer, I believe the overall experience was better at KD due to what probably amounts to higher staffing availability. The crowd level was extremely light so that does improve the situation a bit.
I imagine having a whole area down helps too. Imagine if BGW closed Ireland and just moved staff elsewhere. Would really help.
 
gerstlauer infinity is something ive been saying would be a great fit at kd, and would attract many guests. either that or a modern launch coaster like copperhead strike.
If they want to revisit past glories, they need a very serious launch coaster. S&S comes to mind but after seeing Canobie's review today of Junker, Gerstlauer is an option, that one going from 5-10 to 65 MPH in less than 2 seconds. Would probably need a larger train unless they also want to revisit past poor capacities (after all, if it has no line it can't be that good right %) ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjLGCpgyNU
 
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We had a chance to visit both BGW and KD this year for Christmas. We have been to Christmastown every year since it began except last year as we were in Orlando and went to Seaworld's Christmastown. We usually LOVE doing 5 days in Williamsburg every Christmas because the city has that charm this time of year and BG normally produces an excellent event. During our first night at BG, we were wishing we had done several days at KD. We only went to Winterfest one night this season since we live about 3 hours away.

Our kids were asking to leave the park each night at BG. They were bored. They NEVER ask to leave KD. We were only at Winterfest for one night and only felt like we saw 1/3 of what they had to offer. My wife and I spoke often about the obvious cutbacks on BG part and how much KD added so many little details and elements that made it so charming and magical for our little ones. We do not plan to return to Christmastown for that long again. If KD had longer hours at Christmas, we would exclusively go there. It's just tough to find stuff to do in the Ashland/Doswell area during the day for small kids unless you drive 30 minutes out of the way. KD, you were AMAZING this Christmas. All of the staff, attractions, actors and characters made it truly spectacular. We absolutely cannot wait until next year. We renewed our season passes before we left the park that night.

I truly hope BG will stop with the cutbacks. It felt like so much was lacking this year to us. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe we have just been too many times. But we just didn't enjoy ourselves at all and left early every night we were there. Everyone was nice, but it felt like CT was more of an adult event than a family event, at least to us. Thanks KD for an amazing year!
 
KD lights blow BGs out if the water. KDs lights are immersive. Over and under your sight lines.

For rides BG wins by having Apollo plus 2 other coasters open. And BG has the train and skyway which everyone can ride together. Much better than the car ride. Not having a train kills KD in all seasons.

BG entertainment is light years above Cedar Fairs cookie cutter across the chain shows. No offense to the wonderful performers. But Winterfest shows are high school level and most are standing venues where BG has true theaters and actual productions.

I love looking at lights so I spent a lot of time at Winterfest when I was in VA. I went to Busch on nights KD was closed. With the elimination of most of Busch shows the last days, I had little interest to go there.

If KD had a train and more sit down theaters with better production shows, I think I would skip BG entirely
 
I enjoy both events for what they are. BGW is more established and I love the atmosphere, the shows and I love how more of the park is open. BGW's biggest problems this year were the crowds and the noticeable lack of lights in places. Other than that, it actually felt like a normal season.

I love KD's little shows and the lightning displays are better and because the event hasn't been established like CT is, the park is far less crowded. That being said, it feels like the park needs a lot more to fill up the day. I visited twice this year and both times, me and my partner arrived late and ended up leaving early because of the lack of stuff to do.
 
I like both BGW's and KD's approach to winter shows, and I'm glad they're different. For sure, there's nothing at KD that can compare to best of BGW's big productions -- Scrooge, Twas That Night, Celtic Fyre. Those shows are incredible and worth visiting CT at least once just to see them alone. (Although I will note that the park's productions post Twas That Night in 2015 have been increasingly mediocre.)

But I like how KD doesn't attempt to compete with BGW's big productions and instead offers tons of different, smaller shows out on the paths. The shows function more as diversions in my opinion; you happen to walk past a show as it's performing, you stop and watch it for a few minutes, and then you keep going on your way. To me, this "discovery" aspect adds some magic to the event. The fact that there are so many shows strewn about the paths also adds a level of energy and immersion to Winterfest that CT seems to lack as BGW has eliminated most of its atmospheric performances.

Personally, I don't mind the fact that most of KD's shows are "cookie cutter" since they're at other CF parks as well. I don't have any intention of visiting the other Winterfests and I doubt 99% of KD's guests do either, so I just appreciate the energy, variety, and top-notch talents the shows provide.

Ending this post with an obligatory shoutout to the talent on display at both parks. BGW has historically crushed KD when it comes to the caliber of performers, but this year both parks brought their A game. The performers at KD were incredible this year, and those at BGW were as good as ever.
 
As it looks right now I will definitely spend more time at KD than BGW this year.

Any day with decent attendance at BGW last year was accompanied by long lines and understaffed or closed attractions / restaurants.
Prices are constantly rising while the benefits seem to be getting cut down.
At least I had the all-season dining plan back then that made it worth coming out with the family just to grab some food and go for a walk.

KD on the other hand seemed to be fully staffed and operating with staff that genuinely seemed to be happy to be there.

Add to that that KD is actually putting theming not only on their new ride, but goes on to re-theme old rides and whole sections of the park while BGW cant even be bothered to put barebones theming on their record-breaking new attraction.


BGW is definitely not on the right path here and would do well to throw in an extra dollar or 2 for their employees to make sure a visit there is actually enjoyable.
 
KD on the other hand seemed to be fully staffed and operating with staff that genuinely seemed to be happy to be there.
I'm going to make a prediction -- KD isn't going to be much better than BGW from a staffing impact this summer. Last years shortened hours for KD was a HUGE boon to KD from a staffing perspective that they could hire 2 shifts worth of workers and use them all in one shift. As KD expands hours they'll need more staff like BGW and I'm sure they'll run into the same issues.
 
Looks like they have 6-9h of operations on most days through the year, with only Saturdays up to 11h.

I think last year was mainly 6-8h days. Shouldn't take that much more people to get this covered.
 
I'm going to make a prediction -- KD isn't going to be much better than BGW from a staffing impact this summer. Last years shortened hours for KD was a HUGE boon to KD from a staffing perspective that they could hire 2 shifts worth of workers and use them all in one shift. As KD expands hours they'll need more staff like BGW and I'm sure they'll run into the same issues.

I thought that was one full shift of workers, the early closures were because they couldn't get enough people for a second shift to be able to run normal or extended hour schedules?
 
I thought that was one full shift of workers, the early closures were because they couldn't get enough people for a second shift to be able to run normal or extended hour schedules?
I definitely saw some of the same operators from opening to close at the same rides. I would have assumed its 1 shift operation with maybe a couple of jumpers to cover breaks.
 
typically at kd last summer, specifically at twisted timbers, you would see the same ops all day with a switch of 1 or 2 of them every once and a while. cant speak for the other rides though because timbers is the only one i would always run back too throughout the day.
 
I definitely saw some of the same operators from opening to close at the same rides. I would have assumed its 1 shift operation with maybe a couple of jumpers to cover breaks.
I heard this was the case in many areas from students of mine who worked there. There were floaters and 4-person rotations for 3 person stations. There were some “2-shifts” going on but they weren’t full work days so someone was there pre-opening and post-closing.
 
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I’m not sure who commented on it, but somebody mentioned that Busch employees are always nicer than KD. I know this isn’t relevant to this thread, but I’d also like to point out that my experiences this year counter your opinion by a large margin. Sure, the people working at Busch are nice, but being stressed out all the darn time is going to break you down at some point. I feel like I encountered a lot of stressed out employees that weren’t getting the help they needed.

In comparison, KD has been staffed very well. This causing less stress issues. I’d like to point out that my most recent visit to KD I experienced 6 (yes SIX) employees in Border Burritos. To compare, yesterday in the Festhaus, they had 2 lines open with 6 visible employees staffing both lanes and 2 checkouts.

I just disagree that KD employees aren’t nice. I’ve not experienced that at all this season. They are getting paid better. Recognised for their work. And management is working with them. Area supervisors running rides at time to give their staff a better quality of work is a very wholesome thing to see. KD employees are being setup for success. Have y’all seen that at Busch? I haven’t.

Anyways. I have nothing nice to say about Busch. The bottom level employees are being taken advantage of in too many ways. I’m banning myself from posting about Busch for 3 months lol. Happy Halloween season y’all!

[Admin note: I moved this post to this thread]
 
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