Industry-Wide Park Security & Safety

[warfelg]

I wanted to bring up my thoughts here because they are more in general than single park focused.

It is kinda sad how Halloween events in parks have become just a petridish of duchbaggery. Just this morning hearing of the Kennywood incident, KD incidents, some at Hershey, and how much of a pain it was to get into CW last night. Clearly something has to change with not only how these are handled but how security is.

Consider the following just a random collection of thoughts of approaches that can be taken:

- Go to a reservation system. Make the events limited access. Capping attendance can reduce wait times overall for attractions.

- On that line, give people “ticket windows” for houses/mazes. Jason’s Woods does this and won’t even let you in line if it isn’t your window.

- Require guest registration. Every ticket is tied to a specific name. Allow the parks to be able to identify who’s in the park much easier.

- Tied to the above, if anyone is part of “extreme behavior” (line jumping, fighting, any type of vandalism); ban them and their group minimum of 5 years. Ban their families too if they are minors.

- Press charges and get police involved in incidents of violence and threats. It’s at the point where that’s needed, and they have to have it out there they are doing that.

- Market certain nights as 21+ only. Not many but like 2 nights a month. This will give hopefully a few incident free nights a month. Will also be a good barometer of how much to people see this as a family event.

 

[Coasternerd]

Might be in a minority here but I love that idea.

 

[horsesboy]

I wanted to bring up my thoughts here because they are more in general than single park focused.

It is kinda sad how Halloween events in parks have become just a petridish of duchbaggery. Just this morning hearing of the Kennywood incident, KD incidents, some at Hershey, and how much of a pain it was to get into CW last night. Clearly something has to change with not only how these are handled but how security is.

Consider the following just a random collection of thoughts of approaches that can be taken:

- Go to a reservation system. Make the events limited access. Capping attendance can reduce wait times overall for attractions.

- On that line, give people “ticket windows” for houses/mazes. Jason’s Woods does this and won’t even let you in line if it isn’t your window.

- Require guest registration. Every ticket is tied to a specific name. Allow the parks to be able to identify who’s in the park much easier.

- Tied to the above, if anyone is part of “extreme behavior” (line jumping, fighting, any type of vandalism); ban them and their group minimum of 5 years. Ban their families too if they are minors.

- Press charges and get police involved in incidents of violence and threats. It’s at the point where that’s needed, and they have to have it out there they are doing that.

- Market certain nights as 21+ only. Not many but like 2 nights a month. This will give hopefully a few incident free nights a month. Will also be a good barometer of how much to people see this as a family event.

Dollywood went back to reservation for Christmas part of the way through the season last year do to capacity and crowd issues. It helped but also created other issues such as pass members who felt entitled to enter just showing up and trying to argue their way in and blocking the entrance in the process.

I like the idea if linking tickets to a customer but if you are not going the CW route of IDing everyone then it's point less as you could claim to be anyone.

I am all for banning people who cause trouble but not the group and family part others shouldn't be held responsible for someone else bad choices. Also once again bans are only effective if you ID and can easily and effectively enforce.

Police are already involved quite a bit especially at BGW so I am not sure exactly what you are getting at there.

I am all for trying 21 and over nights but would add I have seen as much issues with drunk adults over the years as kids so I am not sure it is not trading one problem for another.

 

[warfelg]

Dollywood went back to reservation for Christmas part of the way through the season last year do to capacity and crowd issues. It helped but also created other issues such as pass members who felt entitled to enter just showing up and trying to argue their way in and blocking the entrance in the process.

I like the idea if linking tickets to a customer but if you are not going the CW route of IDing everyone then it's point less as you could claim to be anyone.

I am all for banning people who cause trouble but not the group and family part others shouldn't be held responsible for someone else bad choices. Also once again bans are only effective if you ID and can easily and effectively enforce.

Police are already involved quite a bit especially at BGW so I am not sure exactly what you are getting at there.

I am all for trying 21 and over nights but would add I have seen as much issues with drunk adults over the years as kids so I am not sure it is not trading one problem for another.

Fair enough counter points on all. But I wouldn’t mind the headaches of dealing with much of this for the positives that can come out of it.

 

[rswashdc]

Dollywood went back to reservation for Christmas part of the way through the season last year do to capacity and crowd issues. It helped but also created other issues such as pass members who felt entitled to enter just showing up and trying to argue their way in and blocking the entrance in the process.

I like the idea if linking tickets to a customer but if you are not going the CW route of IDing everyone then it's point less as you could claim to be anyone.

I am all for banning people who cause trouble but not the group and family part others shouldn't be held responsible for someone else bad choices. Also once again bans are only effective if you ID and can easily and effectively enforce.

Police are already involved quite a bit especially at BGW so I am not sure exactly what you are getting at there.

I am all for trying 21 and over nights but would add I have seen as much issues with drunk adults over the years as kids so I am not sure it is not trading one problem for another.

During Covid, HP put a reservation system in place but didn’t require it for pass holders. This seemed to be a good balance and I’m sure HP had good metrics on expected pass holder attendance to make it work.

 

[horsesboy]

During Covid, HP put a reservation system in place but didn’t require it for pass holders. This seemed to be a good balance and I’m sure HP had good metrics on expected pass holder attendance to make it work.

My recollection that Hershey reopened with reservations for all but removed it for pass holders shortly after because demand wasn't there at the time and they were not hitting capacity. Regardless the Dollywood example they were saving 50% just for pass members last Christmas and filling both that 50% and the other 50% most days meaning there was literally no space left which was why they went back to the reservations. Yet they still had unbooked pass members show up at the parking entrance and inst that their pass gave them the right to enter and that they were not going to leave.

 

[Jonesta6]

I am all for banning people who cause trouble but not the group and family part others shouldn't be held responsible for someone else bad choices.

I'm assuming this is an enforceable deterrent - but perhaps long-term ban on troublemakers and a ban through the following operating year for their group would be enough that the group members who aren't being jerks can make sure the ones that are clean up their act.

 

[rswashdc]

My recollection that Hershey reopened with reservations for all but removed it for pass holders shortly after because demand wasn't there at the time and they were not hitting capacity. Regardless the Dollywood example they were saving 50% just for pass members last Christmas and filling both that 50% and the other 50% most days meaning there was literally no space left which was why they went back to the reservations. Yet they still had unbooked pass members show up at the parking entrance and inst that their pass gave them the right to enter and that they were not going to leave.

In that case they would need to modify the terms and conditions of their passes, that you could only visit X times during Xmas at a pass holder level (e.g. 3 visits).

 

[rswashdc]

I'm assuming this is an enforceable deterrent - but perhaps long-term ban on troublemakers and a ban through the following operating year for their group would be enough that the group members who aren't being jerks can make sure the ones that are clean up their act.

I think you'd have to demonstrate the group members were an accessory to the incident, particularly if they are not being refunded ticket/pass monies paid.

 

[warfelg]

I think you'd have to demonstrate the group members were an accessory to the incident, particularly if they are not being refunded ticket/pass monies paid.

My though process was it’s a way to deter parents, who may have a pass for the family (including kids), from dropping off their teens/tweens without someone supervising them.

Basically, hold the parents accountable as well!

 

[horsesboy]

My though process was it’s a way to deter parents, who may have a pass for the family (including kids), from dropping off their teens/tweens without someone supervising them.

Basically, hold the parents accountable as well!

I am not as opposed to that as I am the group part. When group was said I thought of things like youth groups or even just a bunch of friends. I both cases I have been in groups where I was with people who's behavior I didn't agree with or participate in but had no way of leaving.

 

[rswashdc]

My though process was it’s a way to deter parents, who may have a pass for the family (including kids), from dropping off their teens/tweens without someone supervising them.

Basically, hold the parents accountable as well!

Holding the parents accountable is fine for younger kids, but older teens are going to be a challenge when the parent may not even have been the one who took them to the park. A better policy would be to increase the minimum chaperone age to 30 and hold the chaperone responsible for the youths behavior.

 

[warfelg]

I am not as opposed to that as I am the group part. When group was said I thought of things like youth groups or even just a bunch of friends. I both cases I have been in groups where I was with people who's behavior I didn't agree with or participate in but had no way of leaving.

And that’s fair enough. I know how hard that can be at times. Like I said it would be great to see there be impacts beyond kicked out for the night.

 

[Jonesta6]

I think you'd have to demonstrate the group members were an accessory to the incident, particularly if they are not being refunded ticket/pass monies paid.

Well, if it's a posted policy, there's no legal recourse for getting banned from private property without refund - 'all entry subject to park rules and policies, no refund or reimbursements to guests who violate these rules/policies and/or are escorted off property ' or something to that effect.

Parents, for sure, can be the ones holding their kids accountable. However, my theory is peer pressure works well for most groups (youth or otherwise) - I'm not going to want my good time ruined by some asshole in the group, so I'd like to think myself and hopefully others speak up and try to get them to quit being a jerk... Or at the very least, remove myself from the group so I'm not affected by their consequences.

 

[rswashdc]

Well, if it's a posted policy, there's no legal recourse for getting banned from private property without refund - 'all entry subject to park rules and policies, no refund or reimbursements to guests who violate these rules/policies and/or are escorted off property ' or something to that effect.

Parents, for sure, can be the ones holding their kids accountable. However, my theory is peer pressure works well for most groups (youth or otherwise) - I'm not going to want my good time ruined by some asshole in the group, so I'd like to think myself and hopefully others speak up and try to get them to quit being a jerk... Or at the very least, remove myself from the group so I'm not affected by their consequences.

I would say peer pressure has some significant limits. From a more adult perspective, say my family visits the park with another family because our kids are friends. The other dad, who I don’t know well, decides to drink a fair amount and gets belligerent enough to get kicked out of the park - say from getting in a fight with another guest.

Now because I couldn’t get said group member to keep from drinking and acting out, my family is banned from the park without a refund. That kind of policy is ridiculous and you can’t simply ban individuals based on association without cause and not expect repercussions.

 

[warfelg]

I would say peer pressure has some significant limits. From a more adult perspective, say my family visits the park with another family because our kids are friends. The other dad, who I don’t know well, decides to drink a fair amount and gets belligerent enough to get kicked out of the park - say from getting in a fight with another guest.

Now because I couldn’t get said group member to keep from drinking and acting out, my family is banned from the park without a refund. That kind of policy is ridiculous and you can’t simply ban individuals based on association without cause and not expect repercussions.

I’m not sure what @Jonesta6 ‘s line of thinking is, but mine is more for the unaccompanied groups of minors, not for something like an adult getting drunk like this.

 

[Nicole]

I created this thread in the Industry Discussion sub-forum and the posts above here, since it isn’t a BGW-specific debate.

 

[Turbo]

Does anyone have any data on issues that happen at HHN in Orlando or California?

 

[rswashdc]

I’m not sure what @Jonesta6 ‘s line of thinking is, but mine is more for the unaccompanied groups of minors, not for something like an adult getting drunk like this.

There's a lot of similarity. Are mom and the kids going to be banned because of dad's behavior, of course not. Similarly while parts of a teen group are rowdy, there may be younger siblings, cousins, and such in that group who aren't causing trouble and can't really keep the older ones from causing trouble. They shouldnt be banned simply by association.

 

[warfelg]

There's a lot of similarity. Are mom and the kids going to be banned because of dad's behavior, of course not. Similarly while parts of a teen group are rowdy, there may be younger siblings, cousins, and such in that group who aren't causing trouble and can't really keep the older ones from causing trouble. They shouldnt be banned simply by association.

Sorry but I’m of the “tough shit mindset”.