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May 29, 2021
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Anyone else notice the hours changed? We were planning to go in late April. Originally the Friday showed 9am-6pm and Saturday 11am-10pm. Now it is 9am-5pm and 11am-8pm respectively. Also showing 9pm closings for the summer. Guess they are already having to cut hours.
 
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Maybe they’re having a harder time with staffing than they hoped.
Wait a minute. That's something people insisted that it was a SEAS/BGW problem only. Sorry but I'm getting a little tired of the hypocrisy of some (not all, and I know a minority) that continually call out SEAS/BGW on problems and say nothing of the other parks that have issues/make mistakes/raise prices.
 
Wait a minute. That's something people insisted that it was a SEAS/BGW problem only. Sorry but I'm getting a little tired of the hypocrisy of some (not all, and I know a minority) that continually call out SEAS/BGW on problems and say nothing of the other parks that have issues/make mistakes/raise prices.
I think the core issue here that differentiates KD and BGW is, KD succeeds more at staffing than BGW by offering better hourly rates than BGW (I don't have great sources to pull, I just remember KD offering $20 an hour for scare actors last year and hearing about them offering much higher rates on a few occasions). If SEAS is choosing to pay employees less and has staffing issues because of it then maybe it isn't really a staffing issue but a budget cut issue.
 
Wait a minute. That's something people insisted that it was a SEAS/BGW problem only. Sorry but I'm getting a little tired of the hypocrisy of some (not all, and I know a minority) that continually call out SEAS/BGW on problems and say nothing of the other parks that have issues/make mistakes/raise prices.
There's a big difference between BGW and KD. Staffing is an issue everywhere but BGW really treats their employees horribly and actually laid off their staff so that they could hire (them back) for less money. KD is trying while BGW is still bringing it on themselves.
 
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I think the core issue here that differentiates KD and BGW is, KD succeeds more at staffing than BGW by offering better hourly rates than BGW (I don't have great sources to pull, I just remember KD offering $20 an hour for scare actors last year and hearing about them offering much higher rates on a few occasions). If SEAS is choosing to pay employees less and has staffing issues because of it then maybe it isn't really a staffing issue but a budget cut issue.
Which is a really different conversation. On multiple fronts.
 
Wait a minute. That's something people insisted that it was a SEAS/BGW problem only. Sorry but I'm getting a little tired of the hypocrisy of some (not all, and I know a minority) that continually call out SEAS/BGW on problems and say nothing of the other parks that have issues/make mistakes/raise prices.

Was this a response to me? Not sure why you decided to quote me on this.

To address your point though, in 2021 I did observe that despite KD’s shorter hours, they did a much better job of keeping the entire park well-staffed and fully operational while the park was open. In my opinion, this was a far more enjoyable (and respectable) approach than BGW’s decision to operate for more hours but with staff stretched as thinly as possible with many attractions and amenities closed.
 
Which is a really different conversation. On multiple fronts.
Then what point are you trying to make? It's been pretty clear that KD has been doing a far better job then BGW when it comes to staffing. You asked a question, got an answer, and now your saying that answer is a different conversation. I'm not at all saying this to be smart -- I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say.
 
Was this a response to me? Not sure why you decided to quote me on this.

To address your point though, in 2021 I did observe that despite KD’s shorter hours, they did a much better job of keeping the entire park well-staffed and fully operational while the park was open. In my opinion, this was a far more enjoyable (and respectable) approach than BGW’s decision to operate for more hours but with staff stretched as thinly as possible with many attractions and amenities closed.
Not a response continuing conversation.
 
Then what point are you trying to make? It's been pretty clear that KD has been doing a far better job then BGW when it comes to staffing. You asked a question, got an answer, and now your saying that answer is a different conversation. I'm not at all saying this to be smart -- I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say.
I have a longer response on my computer typed that I haven’t saved but people bring up the one pays this other pays that in a vacuum. There’s a lot of context that has to go on there between the two parks.

As someone that’s no longer local, suddenly seeing hours shorten annoys me more than a place being thinly staffed. Working in the service field I can always forgive thinly staffed.

Also:
BGW is in a population center. Them getting staffed is more on being competitive with both wages and benefits of other employers in Williamsburg to Hampton Roads area. KD needs to be competitive with not just more local jobs in RVA/Fredericksburg but they also need to entice potential employees to make that drive.

Therefore I feel it’s unfair to compare pay at BGW to that of KD, however I feel it’s fair to compare pay to other local Williamsburg employees. That’s why saying KD pays X and BGW pays Y is a different conversation.

Also if KD needs to cut hours, paying more clearly is t helping fix the employment issues.
 
I have a longer response on my computer typed that I haven’t saved but people bring up the one pays this other pays that in a vacuum. There’s a lot of context that has to go on there between the two parks.

As someone that’s no longer local, suddenly seeing hours shorten annoys me more than a place being thinly staffed. Working in the service field I can always forgive thinly staffed.

Also:
BGW is in a population center. Them getting staffed is more on being competitive with both wages and benefits of other employers in Williamsburg to Hampton Roads area. KD needs to be competitive with not just more local jobs in RVA/Fredericksburg but they also need to entice potential employees to make that drive.

Therefore I feel it’s unfair to compare pay at BGW to that of KD, however I feel it’s fair to compare pay to other local Williamsburg employees. That’s why saying KD pays X and BGW pays Y is a different conversation.

Also if KD needs to cut hours, paying more clearly is t helping fix the employment issues.
I would much rather have shorter hours than having a miserable experience. At least with hours I have better expectations.

You make a valid point on a direct comparison between pay between BGW and KD but it's not even all about the pay. The bigger issue with BGW, as I said above, is when they decided that they were going to lay off their workforce because they didn't want to pay the extra money that they advertised to get their staffing to that level in the first place. I know people that work in the parks and mostly everyone will tell you that KD is treating their employees far better than BGW -- that's a much bigger issue. For me, it's not about the direct comparison of pay but the actions they are taking. BGW is trying to walk stuff back and continue to cut costs while KD is at least maintaining the higher pay rate that they started during Covid.
 
I would much rather have shorter hours than having a miserable experience. At least with hours I have better expectations.

You make a valid point on a direct comparison between pay between BGW and KD but it's not even all about the pay. The bigger issue with BGW, as I said above, is when they decided that they were going to lay off their workforce because they didn't want to pay the extra money that they advertised to get their staffing to that level in the first place. I know people that work in the parks and mostly everyone will tell you that KD is treating their employees far better than BGW -- that's a much bigger issue. For me, it's not about the direct comparison of pay but the actions they are taking. BGW is trying to walk stuff back and continue to cut costs while KD is at least maintaining the higher pay rate that they started during Covid.
Which is fair to me. I think clearly SEAS is trying to do something with their money that they are cutting everything this much and they are being incredibly coy about it.

(On the first part - as someone that goes solo to parks all the time I have low expectations anyways)

I find your point of the treatment more important than the pay conversation for some of the reasons I stated. Though we’ve discussed in the PGA about a “day of reconnoning” where The customer service industry (which amusement parks fall under) is going to crater as we already have many more jobs available than people even applying.
 
Which is fair to me. I think clearly SEAS is trying to do something with their money that they are cutting everything this much and they are being incredibly coy about it.
Unfortunately I think the major (not the only) reason is more executive bonus related and/or shareholder. You shouldn't ignore your executives and your shareholders but it also isn't all about them. It really seems to me that SEAS is only thinking very short term and little about long term.

I've mentioned this on our podcast before but I worked at Pizza Hut through the years that they went from being the place you went for pizza to being just a mediocre option. While I was shift level management I was actually a go-to manager who covered multiple stores as things got worse and worse and BGW is just reminding me of that time at Pizza Hut. It becomes a focus on bottom line which leads to a hyper focus on the bottom line but that hyper focus then causes a performance drop which freaks out those watching the bottom line which leads to another area of cuts which leads to more performance drop, which leads to blame and pressure put on the bottom of the food chain, which repeats over and over until what once was is gone and unable to be easily regained. I remember even in that period when there was a stretch where corporate went through and started doing major renovations to back of house sections of nearly all the stores in our region and we were shocked and excited until we finally found out that the reason for all of it was what would do the most damage to the brand -- they switched fresh dough to all frozen dough. After that there wasn't only a service issue because of lack of labor hours to spend but the quality dropped..... it wasn't long after that that we started seeing most of the dine-in stores close, the company selling off corporate stores to franchises, and the rapid downward spiral. Obviously it's not a direct parallel but it really just reminds me of that scenario.
(On the first part - as someone that goes solo to parks all the time I have low expectations anyways)
My expectations usually fall in line with price.... my biggest problem with BGW was paying far more money than anywhere else and not having anything that really justified that cost. A few years back I could justify it but it's hard to do so now. KD (well, CF in general) is middle of the road..... I always had decent expectations but could tolerate some crap..... SF was always the one that I just expected it and rolled with the punches because it was cheap enough that I didn't care -- but, of course, all that is changing now and the next couple of years are looking very different.
I find your point of the treatment more important than the pay conversation for some of the reasons I stated. Though we’ve discussed in the PGA about a “day of reconnoning” where The customer service industry (which amusement parks fall under) is going to crater as we already have many more jobs available than people even applying.
Yup.... and the reason why they don't get the applications is because of pay and, especially, the lack of benefits and fair treatment. If I could afford to work at a park I'd be making that happen right now.... even just as a ride operator -- but people have to pay their bills.
 
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Also if KD needs to cut hours, paying more clearly is t helping fix the employment issues

There's a huge logical gap in this statement. You're saying that, since KD cut hours, that is evidence that their higher pay hasn't done anything to address their staffing issues. The problem is that you're not considering how much worse KD's employment issues would be if they didn't pay more. If KD's wages weren't as high (say, the same level as BGW's wages), there's a good chance they would have to cut hours even more or make cuts in other areas. We don't have the data to know what KD's employment issues would be like if their wages were lower, but I think it's an illogical assumption to say that since KD is making some cuts, that means the higher pay had no impact on fixing their staffing issues.

tl;dr Using cut hours as evidence that KD's higher pay "clearly [isn't] helping fix the employment issues" makes no sense since you're not comparing the park's current state to what it would have been like without that pay.
 
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Then what point are you trying to make? It's been pretty clear that KD has been doing a far better job then BGW when it comes to staffing. You asked a question, got an answer, and now your saying that answer is a different conversation. I'm not at all saying this to be smart -- I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say.
I read many comments from people who had the opposite opinion last year that BGW was more consumer friendly by being open closer to a full sedchule then KD was. Personally I saw good and bad in both approach. Fir my sedchule and life BGW's approach just worked better as KD's hours largely locked me out of visits for much of 2021. That said I can see very well why someone in the position to work around KD's limited openings might have found them to be more attractive. And yes I do at times look at some post here and think God some people just have blinders on when it comes to negative aspects of KD.
 
Yup.... and the reason why they don't get the applications is because of pay and, especially, the lack of benefits and fair treatment. If I could afford to work at a park I'd be making that happen right now.... even just as a ride operator -- but people have to pay their bills.
And I think that brings up a fair enough question to ask....

....should some of these jobs be viewed as jobs that aren't meant to sustain the cost of living. Like....in most cases it's part time seasonal work. Yes BGW is trying to go year round (I think they should push for about 35-40% of their staff being salary) but that doesn't mean every job needs to be full time year round with benefits.

It's certainly an incredibly in depth issue at hand.
 
I only went once last season. The preview day. And it went really well, especially for a preview day, but not even considering that. But then after that I had several friends reporting pretty bad experiences with staffing issues and such on later days of the season, so I don't know what to make of that.
 
I mean clearly it didn't completely solve it but that doesn't prove that it didn't take a big step in that direction.
And we see though the two different solutions to being understaffed. Either spread everyone thin and try to give the full park experience over the entire day, or cut back on the hours and try to give people a speedy way through the rides over a shortened time frame.

But I also agree with your statement that so many people have blinders on to negative aspects of other parks in general.
 
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