Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!

Alf33

Life is short, so eat dessert first.
Jun 8, 2013
807
1,792
220
DeSantis is proving yet again that he is clearly a vindictive person who will punish those that oppose him by considering doing this. Too bad DW is so large as I'd laugh like hell if Disney said OK, do this and we'll close the whole thing down and move everything to Georgia even though it would cost a fortune just to get the hell out of FL while he is in charge.
 
Mar 8, 2022
836
1,304
220
Martinsburg, WV
twitter.com
DeSantis is proving yet again that he is clearly a vindictive person who will punish those that oppose him by considering doing this. Too bad DW is so large as I'd laugh like hell if Disney said OK, do this and we'll close the whole thing down and move everything to Georgia even though it would cost a fortune just to get the hell out of FL while he is in charge.
This guy is quickly eclipsing Abbot..... I just can't fathom being this horrible of a person.
 

Jonesta6

Glumble
Feb 14, 2019
4,364
4,263
250
First, I think this could go under the Dumpster Fire Politics thread...

Second - while the current issue imo is based upon unnecessary legislation (this coming from the party that supposedly wants less government and more individual liberties... Though obviously only if you're of a particular gender, race, and sexual orientation), he does have a point about Disney receiving unprecedented government influence via a statute that allows for self-governance on their property.

I'm not a legal expert, especially not on Florida governance, but I'd be really curious what changes would occur if the Reedy Creek and/or Bay Lake districts were absorbed into the surrounding counties and Disney lost their self-governance thus forcing them to be on the same playing field as other resorts and theme park companies in the state?

On private property, how much control does the Florida government have over enforcing what appears to be highly discriminatory legislation? Would the main change be financial in the form of taxes, or also further oversight in the designing/planning/building or renovation of attractions and their related structures?
 

Zachary

Administrator
Sep 23, 2009
15,840
45,985
260
Virginia
Hot take: I actually love this.

I stand in staunch opposition to two things in question here:
  1. Florida's "Don't Say Gay" Bill
  2. Florida's Willingness to Essentially Give a Corporation a Municipality
Revoking the Reedy Creek Improvement District legislation would massively help Orange County and its residents, abolish something I believe to be inherently undemocratic and corrosive, and improve transparency around, oversight over, and community input on one of the most impactful development sites in the entire region.
 

horsesboy

DarKoaster stalker
Advisory Panel
Silver Donor
Jun 16, 2013
4,660
10,457
250
Yeah the timing of this is stupid and bad but that doesn't mean that the actual idea of revoking Disney's self rule is bad. Disney has used it to their advantage in many ways that are not always to the benefit of the general public in the past.
 
Mar 16, 2016
7,996
12,998
250
I'm not a legal expert, especially not on Florida governance, but I'd be really curious what changes would occur if the Reedy Creek and/or Bay Lake districts were absorbed into the surrounding counties and Disney lost their self-governance thus forcing them to be on the same playing field as other resorts and theme park companies in the state?
Long story short (having studied this in depth) it would be a shit show.

Disney has its own police, fire, EMT, sewer, water, and many other services. Most their infrastructure does not link to the Orlando area in general. It would need to be incorporated into a county, if it’s not left on its own (which would mean no residents to elect to any public service positions).

Basically from a city planner perspective I’d say this:
Good fucking luck. It’s going to cost hundreds of millions to do this.
 

Jonesta6

Glumble
Feb 14, 2019
4,364
4,263
250
Long story short (having studied this in depth) it would be a shit show.

Disney has its own police, fire, EMT, sewer, water, and many other services. Most their infrastructure does not link to the Orlando area in general. It would need to be incorporated into a county, if it’s not left on its own (which would mean no residents to elect to any public service positions).

Basically from a city planner perspective I’d say this:
Good fucking luck. It’s going to cost hundreds of millions to do this.

That definitely adds perspective.

Then, assuming all utilities and core services were integrated to the counties, I'd have to guess that Disney would attempt to pay as little as possible while requiring certain levels of service that may cost more than the municipalities could afford if Disney didn't foot the bill?

Then again, Universal is of a similar size and stature but not it's own municipality - surely there's something that can be learned from that arrangement too?
 
  • Like
Reactions: horsesboy
Mar 16, 2016
7,996
12,998
250
That definitely adds perspective.

Then, assuming all utilities and core services were integrated to the counties, I'd have to guess that Disney would attempt to pay as little as possible while requiring certain levels of service that may cost more than the municipalities could afford if Disney didn't foot the bill?

Then again, Universal is of a similar size and stature but not it's own municipality - surely there's something that can be learned from that arrangement too?
Universal was built to be integrated from the start though. And if FL did go that way, Disney would fight tooth and nail about being integrated and having to pay because they will argue that it’s against their will that it’s happening and you can’t force them to pay.

Effectively it would be a groundbreaking case that DiSantis would have to claim imminent domain to take the land, sell it back to Disney, and require them to pay for integration via taxes. I would think by then someone else would be in office and would drop an unpopular and expensive on the taxpayer lawsuit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alf33 and Jonesta6
Mar 17, 2020
753
1,325
220
Universal was built to be integrated from the start though. And if FL did go that way, Disney would fight tooth and nail about being integrated and having to pay because they will argue that it’s against their will that it’s happening and you can’t force them to pay.

Effectively it would be a groundbreaking case that DiSantis would have to claim imminent domain to take the land, sell it back to Disney, and require them to pay for integration via taxes. I would think by then someone else would be in office and would drop an unpopular and expensive on the taxpayer lawsuit.
From what I understand, after Disney pulled off their development, there was no way the locals were going to let it happen ever again, with the result being that if you wanted to build a park, you had to do so with the full blessing of the local governments, utilities, etc. I'm sure Universal would like the ability to not be integrated, especially with Epic Universe coming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zachary
Mar 8, 2022
836
1,304
220
Martinsburg, WV
twitter.com
Yeah the timing of this is stupid and bad but that doesn't mean that the actual idea of revoking Disney's self rule is bad. Disney has used it to their advantage in many ways that are not always to the benefit of the general public in the past.
Absolutely. Disney has had unfair advantages but "correcting" that right now absolutely doesn't happen solely because of the stage DeSantis set. That's also the overwhelming thing here - it's not about fixing the mistake but purely about retaliation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zachary
Mar 17, 2020
753
1,325
220
I'm honestly not sure that's a simple statement to make. There are advantages the way they are set up as well and biting off what Disney chews would quite possibly be more than Universal would want.
I think Universal would like the option, as it could be used as a negotiating tool any time they wanted to do anything. Whether or not they actually did anything with it is another story.
 
Mar 16, 2016
7,996
12,998
250
Also Universal has a GREAT working relationship with the local government to where they will help many plans be kept under wraps. Just because they aren’t a fully independent entity doesn’t mean that they don’t enjoy certain benefits most other companies wouldn’t get.

I’m sure DiSanti’s goal would be to reincorporated Disney so they can set up a quid-pro-quo of support shitty bills and we will let you build anything. Which aside from being illegal is a complete joke and would cause many residents to revolt against him since Disney is a huge employer and a huge reason so much tourism income comes into the state (and area).
 
Mar 16, 2016
7,996
12,998
250
Sadly it sounds like this is gaining traction as a bill.

One economist has estimated that for Florida to service Disney with everything it would need in losing its special exemption, Florida would lose $200+ million per year in the differential of costs between what the state would spend and what Disney would pay in taxes. Additionally Orange County would likely be broke within 5 years trying to manage it.
 

Jonesta6

Glumble
Feb 14, 2019
4,364
4,263
250
Is the bill revoking self-governance worded as such that Disney and the surrounding counties must immediately be re-combined, or would there be a grace period long enough to do it right?

Additionally, does the bill refer to an actual funding source, or is it a mandate like the one Virginia legislators drafted that requires Richmond to finish replacing the centuries old combined outflow sewer system in 5 years with no funding source to pay for it (last I heard it was somewhere in the 10-figure neighborhood though that may not be right)?

Either way Disney would likely be required to pay way more than desired even if they were ok with the change, which they won't be - how many lawsuits can one expect in a short amount of time if the bill passes the governor's desk?
 

Zachary

Administrator
Sep 23, 2009
15,840
45,985
260
Virginia
Sadly it sounds like this is gaining traction as a bill.

One economist has estimated that for Florida to service Disney with everything it would need in losing its special exemption, Florida would lose $200+ million per year in the differential of costs between what the state would spend and what Disney would pay in taxes. Additionally Orange County would likely be broke within 5 years trying to manage it.

Good. Tax Disney more.
 
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad