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Ryan

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I recently thought of a new house idea. The house would be called "Haptic" and it would be a spin-off of the house Dystopia. This house has a few inspirations such as Dystopia itself, the videogame We Happy Few, Lunatic's Playground 3D: You Won't Stand a Chance at HHN and Pyrovision from TF2 Alright, so the basic gist of the house would be that for every room, there would be another version of that room. The first room would be a happy "pyrovision" type thing where everything is happy but the next room it would be the same room but you are "off the drug" and you see the reality of what's happening. Please, ask any questions that you might have and I love constructive criticism.
 

Applesauce

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mmmmmmmmmmmm Let's stay away from "insane asylum psychos".

I understand asylums weren't the greatest which makes great backdrops for houses. But haunted houses tend to focus on making the patients the ones that hurt people, rather than focusing on the "doctors" who hurt them. When they're just regular people with a mental illness. Making them the monsters in the houses just sort of continues to stigmatize mentally ill people. You wouldn't call somebody with cancer a monster, why would you call somebody with a mental illness one.

I also don't feel like that's what Ryan is aiming for? It's brainwashing and propaganda not people with disorders.
 

Ice

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So by that same logic, having haunted houses with clowns enforces the negative stigma about clowns? So those who make a genuine living out of that job shouldn't be okay with circus themed haunted houses?
 
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Applesauce

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Okay well first of all, professional clowns aren't okay with horror clowns. Most professional clowns actively dislike horror clowns. And in order to basically graduate from clown schools (yes that's a thing.) you basically sign a statement saying that you will never purposefully inflict harm to another person to try and invoke a fear of clowns. There are a lot of rules about being a professional clown. It varies from company to company but the same thing remains: DON'T SCARE THE PEOPLE. They understand that their makeup can make people uneasy, and they do their best to try and get you to enjoy their routine, which is in good humor.

Second of all, there are numerous fucked up stories and just general history of the mentally ill being abused in hospital wards. And I've found that most haunt spaces, not to mention hollywood, tend to demonize the patients more so than the "doctors". Some "doctors" will get beat by their own patients as an act of revenge, but its never displayed in a good light. These are people who needed help and these "doctors" decided to treat them by torture. And it's not just those who would like harm themselves or others, its goes back to people who just have anxiety or depression.

Ultimately, the difference is clowns actively choose to become a clown. I didn't choose to have an anxiety disorder.
 

Ice

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I think there needs to be the distinction that nobody is making fun of mental illness. An insane asylum house is just capitalizing on the natural fear of the abnormal and unknown; that which isn't easily explained and is hard to understand. Hence why asylums have always been seen as scary.

Eventually we need to come to a point where we recognize that offensiveness is inherent in human nature, and avoiding it like the plague eventually progresses to the point of "whats even allowed anymore?". ESPECIALLY when it comes to the act of scaring someone, which is essentially a core embodiment of being offensive to an extreme degree.

If it was deliberately insulting someone or something directly then yes I'd have a problem with it.

And you could also make the argument that an insane asylum house isn't just focusing on mental disorders, but rather the extent the patients have been driven insane by the horrific practices put in place by the facility. You assume they are just "targeting" mental illness.

EDIT: It is also worth mentioning I am not in favor of an asylum house, simply because I think they have gotten stale. Always the same thing and never really scare me, usually just have a distinct smell. I'm simply providing this point of view on the issue of offensiveness in this environment.
 
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Ryan

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I also don't feel like that's what Ryan is aiming for? It's brainwashing and propaganda not people with disorders.
This. One thing I was really trying to stay away from was being too much like Lunatics Playground 3D. If you watch a video of a walkthrough, it is set in a mental asylum and is kind of the same thing which I tried not to do. I personally don’t have a huge problem with the mental asylum idea as a concept like Ice but I don’t agree with it as a setting idea. Once again, I am open to constructive critique. (P.S. I see where you are coming from Applesauce and I hope you’re winning your battle against social anxiety <3)
 
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Applesauce

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@lce I'm aware that nobody here is making fun of mental illness.

But this is the thing: Any real world based house, whether its Dentists, Schools, Miners, Clowns, etc are based in the reality that you are 100% aware that these ordinary things are not inherently scary. The people who work or are involved in those environments are not actually scary. 99% of the time they are not there to hurt you. Which allows you to go into a house with the idea that this is an outlier case.

The two big themes that don't follow this trend are Asylums and Prisons. Prisons for obvious reasons, these are supposed to be criminals, they've done bad things and they've been locked away. (Though that's a whole other discussion entirely) Asylums on the other hand come from the fear of not understanding it, like you said. The problem with that is there is so much more information about mental illness out there that isn't widely spread, and so many people are suffering from these issues that when you just throw in a "oo look a CrAzY pErSoN" into the mix it continues to harm those who do actually suffer from actual problems. Not to mention the amount of people these days who hear somebody say they have a problem with something, that does legitimately bother them, and the response is "Are you Triggered?????" and getting called a snowflake for it. Its dismissive.

The issue when it comes to "These people have been driven to this point" doesn't come back to reflect on the ones who drove them that far. I experience Maze of Madness one whole time at KD, but there wasn't a single doctor in that house that wasn't a victim. It was just "The crazies took over!!!!" considering, and I could be wrong about this I went through this house 5 years ago, the theme of the house was based on the idea that the patients were pushed farther than they should have been. It almost never reflects back on the ones who pushed them that far, and when it does it still continues to demonize the patients because you're still supposed to fear them, they want revenge against the ones who hurt them but they're blinded so they might hurt you oH NOOOOooooOOO.

As for everything, there are a shit ton of other ideas out there that don't stem from hurting a group of people who just want help and to be left alone. And if you think that just removing the idea of asylums is gonna cause an avalanche of "oh no that's offensive. this is the fun police no fun here." then I think you really might need to do some self reflecting and try to understand how these things hurt people.

@Ryan , I figured that was the case, since Dystopia is a house based on propaganda! I think there are a few ideas mentioned in last years HoS thread as to fixing the house to make that idea even more clear. But, I'm not sure what pages thats on. (and I know that's a long thread. lol ) And thanks, its a struggle but I'm getting the right help I need to cope.
 

Ice

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Fear of asylums doesn't stem from SOLELY not understanding. It's also the fact that it is widely accepted now that they were essentially real life horror stories with how these people were treated.

And if you think that just removing the idea of asylums is gonna cause an avalanche of "oh no that's offensive. this is the fun police no fun here." then I think you really might need to do some self reflecting and try to understand how these things hurt people

I found this bit a little unnecessary, as we are all entitled to our own opinion and to disagree in a civil manor, and for someone advocating for not offending people you sure don't seem to have a problem being offensive on here, as seen in other threads when someone bothers you or when you basically insinuate I am unintelligent and need to take some time to educate myself.

We are not going to agree on the offensiveness portion of this, so we may as well move on and stick to @Ryan 's concept. I was just caught off guard that a haunted house was now a candidate for a political correctness check, so I apologise if I took us off track.
 

Zachary

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Fear of asylums doesn't stem from SOLELY not understanding. It's also the fact that it is widely accepted now that they were essentially real life horror stories with how these people were treated.

I'm typically all for moving on from a discussion like this, but I can't let this point go unrefuted.

There's a reason we don't have houses themed after Nazi concentration camps. It's because theming light-hearted entertainment products to real human suffering and tragedy is really fucking shitty.
 

Applesauce

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Nah, that was just general advice to try and see the other side of the argument and why this hurts people.

If you actually bothered me I would have told you to stop opening your mouth, just like I've said to one (1) other person.
 

Ice

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I'm typically all for moving on from a discussion like this, but I can't let this point go unrefuted.

There's a reason we don't have houses themed after Nazi concentration camps. It's because theming entertainment products based on cheap jump scares to real human suffering and tragedy is really fucking shitty.
I knew someone would bring this up. I'm glad it was you @Zachary, I feel similarly. It's interesting how society can view something like a concentration camp house unacceptable but an asylum house okay when they both focus on suffering, just with different motives.

I'm a big fan of sociological and psychological theory if you haven't noticed.
 

Ice

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Nah, that was just general advice to try and see the other side of the argument and why this hurts people.
And there is where we differ as individuals, as I simply do not mind being offensive or hurting someone's feelings as long as I am not directly insulting them or being objectively mean. Hence why we will never agree, yet I respect your stance entirely. I simply ask similar respect.
 

Ice

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This is a discussion for a different thread. But the concept of being offensive isn't inherently mean. It can be performed with mal-intent (and usually is, hence why they are affiliated together), but offensiveness in itself is not "mean", as it is critical to human interaction.

For clarity, technically just disagreeing in the most civil way is a method of offending someone else's thought. Like if you said you think Busch should only sell hot dogs, and I say they shouldn't, I am TECHNICALLY offending your thought (according to modern human interaction texts I have read, take it as you will). Not a mean interaction in the slightest, but still technically offensive.

I apologise admins for taking us off track. This'll be my last post about the matter.

Edit: Posted this before I saw @Zachary message above, feel free to remove.
 
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netdvn

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Tampa did a fantastic asylum themed maze last year in the old Clydesdale barn. It was incredibly long, had some amazing gimmicks and some great actors to boot. If Williamsburg could put something as great as Insomnia together, I'd be game with fully replacing the Pompeii maze.

Part of my issue with Dystopia was there was almost no theming compared to Deadline. The first half of the maze was literally Deadline anyway. Second half was chain link fences, bare walls, and the occasional prop. If they wanna do an asylum maze, take some inspiration from Insomnia and maybe sprinkle some Motel Hell around. Doesn't really have to be copy-paste but it needs to look like the park at least tried.
 
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Applesauce

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Insomnia was more like a sleep study gone wrong? There's one room that says asylum, the rest is just doctors who are torturing their patients with insomnia which is causing their nightmares to come alive.

But this thread isn't about asylum houses and adding them to the park, Ryan specifically said that he was trying avoiding that as a theme. Dystopia had only partial good theming, there was a specific route you had to take in order to really get the full story. (and it wasn't the way with eye surgery getting shown on tv.) Which is pretty par for the course with BGW, doesn't make it good. the difference is Dystopia was made in house, Deadline wasn't, that's where theming inconsistency comes from.
 
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