Login or Register to Hide This Ad
Nov 16, 2019
206
125
43
Finally, on your last point there, I tried arguing with you on the merits of your case and you repeatedly refused to engage—chosing to dodge and toss out ad hominems instead. I decided arguing the merits with you wasn't worth my trouble. .

could you quote a personal attack I made against you? I told you I didn’t think the question you were asking was relevant and you chose not to defend its relevancy.
 
Nov 24, 2009
3,005
3,067
113
Disney is currently massively limiting attendance by holders of pass products through their park reservations system
Have you been to The Magic Kingdom since Oct 1st? Nightly now the crowds look like 4th of July very night. Heck the end of the line for the resort monorail started inside the park one night. 2 Hour waits for popcorn and 1 hour waits once you submit a mobile food order was never a thing before covid and the park reservations which limits guests.
 

Nicole

Administrator
Jul 22, 2013
10,393
27,107
113
Arlington, VA
I know. Your just being rude and shouting straw man over and over again instead of 1) specifically saying what the straw man argument was in relation to the argument I was making ( because we have talked about several different things in the topic) or 2) addressing the arguments at hand. BTW, a rolls eyes emoji is also rude and a weak form of expression.


The person I was talking to admitted they had no data. So if that’s the case then defacto, they are believing in things without evidence.

I didn’t say I knew what the price elasticity of demand or marginal cost of a guest was, but that I am sure Busch Gardens knows what it is and has chosen the appropriate revenue maximizing price point accordingly.

The closest someone has came to providing any evidence that the violence is caused by low prices is a study that people value higher priced things more. So we are all talking with limited data or evidence. We have a little of anecdotal evidence, most of which discredits the popular theory on this forum.

I don’t think the vendiagram of price value and violence perfectly over lap.


Shouting straw man over and over again while pretending to not make an argument is rude. straw man straw man…. Pointing out what limited evidence we do have partially discredits a theory is not a straw man argument. Your making a lot of accusations simply because you disagree with what I am saying. I haven’t been rude to anyone but if you insist on clapping at me it’s only fair to expect a clap back 🙄

I am "shouting?" Really? No, I am identifying the rhetorical construct you are using, rather than engaging in reasonable and polite debate.

I was clearly responding to the specific post that I quoted. In that post, which was specifically directed at me, personally, since you only quoted me, you said, "You all say whatever you say, make assumptions about what will happen when what you say is enacted, for sure. I agree you haven’t explicitly said 'I want less people at the park.'” My point was that I never said those things, so accusing me of advocating for opinions I do not actually hold and then criticizing those made-up positions, is a straw man argument.

I identified another straw man argument that you made about other people's theories. They addressed both day tickets and Fun Cards. You ignored the day tickets, which are clearly relevant to people from NC, and instead focused entirely on the Fun Cards, which may or may not be relevant. Based on that inaccurate representation of their argument, you provided a sneering response. The straw man in this case was the false representation of their position.

Since my post (again the one you decided to respond to directly) had nothing to do with price elasticity of demand, marginal value, Venn diagrams, or any other specifics of the discussion, I'm not sure of their relevance. My point has been and will continue to be that your approach to the debate is consistently and unnecessarily aggressive.

I am not "pretending" not to make an argument. My only interest in this discussion is to keep it civil. As I said previously, I believe this is a wicked problem and none of us have the data or expertise to assess the complex system that is leading to the uptick in violence, nor do we have the tools assess the best solution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zachary

Zachary

BGW Eggspert
Administrator
Sep 23, 2009
14,359
38,852
113
could you quote a personal attack I made against you?

Direct ad hominem:

"an argument only a privileged person can make"

Misrepresenting arguments and inserting dog whistles to engage in an ad hominem (opposition = racist):

"Raise prices to keep the riff raff out."

"you all wanted to raise prices in order to keep unwelcome people out"


Intentionally misrepresenting an argument to engage in an ad hominem (opposition = selfish):

"The logic is “it would be good for me if there were less people at the park”


Instead of debating ideas and concepts on their merits you repeatedly regress to attacking the people making them within just a few posts of someone engaging with you. Anyone can see it all throughout this thread @qdeathstar.

Again, this is why I'm done arguing the merits of these ideas with you. You're willing to sit there and feign innocence when collecting those quotes took me literally 30 seconds. I'm sorry, but it's just way too late to claim you're arguing in good faith now.

Anyway, that's all from me until I spy another blatant falicy being employed to shut down good faith conversation 'round here.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Murphy and Nicole
Nov 16, 2019
206
125
43
Direct ad hominem:

"an argument only a privileged person can make"

Misrepresenting arguments and inserting dog whistles to engage in an ad hominem (opposition = racist):

"Raise prices to keep the riff raff out."

"you all wanted to raise prices in order to keep unwelcome people out"


Intentionally misrepresenting an argument to engage in an ad hominem (opposition = selfish):

"The logic is “it would be good for me if there were less people at the park”


Instead of debating ideas and concepts on their merits

I did debate the idea. I explained why they were meritless, as above. I explained why it was racist.

I did say I didn’t think you were being explicitly racist, but the policy itself is inherently racist. I wasn’t attacking you, I was attacking idea of the racist policy.

I don’t think I misrepresented what you want. You want to keep people who start fights out of the park. The riff raff. I think if you look it up in the dictionary that’s what riff raff means.

And, in the end, you are being selfish. So I reckon one truthful adhominable attack is just fine.


Anyway, that's all from me

But you still keep coming back for more quotey goodness.
 

netdvn

Team Instinct
Jan 12, 2012
1,832
2,970
113
in the rear
dvn225.deviantart.com
So this took place at HHN last night. It was apparently slammed


So it doesn't matter how much you charge your guests. People will act entitled and be really shitty to each other no matter where you are. Throw in a couple mixed drinks and watch the fireworks fly.

I was there last night, but I arrived after most of the crowd left so it was smooth sailing for me.
 
Nov 30, 2018
993
814
93
So this took place at HHN last night. It was apparently slammed


So it doesn't matter how much you charge your guests. People will act entitled and be really shitty to each other no matter where you are. Throw in a couple mixed drinks and watch the fireworks fly.

I was there last night, but I arrived after most of the crowd left so it was smooth sailing for me.
The common denominator in these incidents seems to be how crowded the parks are and them becoming unmanageable, though price drives crowd size so it’s a factor. A different model with smaller crowds and higher prices on what are typically very busy days would help significantly, maybe looking at Discovery Cove as a model.
 

warfelg

Advisory Panel
Mar 16, 2016
6,551
10,586
113
The common denominator in these incidents seems to be how crowded the parks are and them becoming unmanageable, though price drives crowd size so it’s a factor. A different model with smaller crowds and higher prices on what are typically very busy days would help significantly, maybe looking at Discovery Cove as a model.
Variable pricing is great and all but you run the risk on a run of tickets last minute due to lower rates.

Honestly, to me the simplest answer to me is they have to find a way to get staffing up or cut back on hours massively. Hell I’d be ok with 11-4 it’s The front half of the park only and 4-10 it’s the full park so they need less staff and can save them for later.

Truth is though the employment base post-ish pandemic is no where near the size it was pre-pandemic. And it doesn’t look like there’s going to be any change to this anytime soon. We’re in this for a while.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Logang and Nibbins

Zachary

BGW Eggspert
Administrator
Sep 23, 2009
14,359
38,852
113
The impressive thing about that Uni video that really sets it apart from the BGW videos we've seen is just how many uniformed security and cops showed up and how quickly they arrived.
 
Nov 16, 2019
206
125
43
So this took place at HHN last night. It was apparently slammed


So it doesn't matter how much you charge your guests. People will act entitled and be really shitty to each other no matter where you are. Throw in a couple mixed drinks and watch the fireworks fly.

I was there last night, but I arrived after most of the crowd left so it was smooth sailing for me.
Still waiting for people here to see enough of this evidence to reevaluate their half baked solutions. 🤷
 
Nov 16, 2019
206
125
43
The impressive thing about that Uni video that really sets it apart from the BGW videos we've seen is just how many uniformed security and cops showed up and how quickly they arrived.
Yes, because that is the best way to deal with the issue. If that means closing some attractions until you can provide adequate security for them, so be it. Btw, flossing attractions will also lower the demand for tickets, while also lowering bge’s operating cost.
 
Nov 16, 2019
206
125
43
Maybe it should mean raising prices until you can afford that level of a security force. 🤔 (Read: Uni's actual method.)
There is a labor shortage. There aren’t people to hire. You can’t just throw any schmo into a uniform and call them a security guard. Also there isn’t a shred of evidence to suggest BGE can’t afford security guards.
 
Nov 24, 2009
3,005
3,067
113
The impressive thing about that Uni video that really sets it apart from the BGW videos we've seen is just how many uniformed security and cops showed up and how quickly they arrived.
At about 30 seconds into that video both park security and uniformed officers were there. Now who knows how long that incident had been going on when video started and its really hard to see when security first arrived. Another diffrence I noted between this and the say Apollo video is the bystanders. At Uni many tried to seperate people where at BGW the bystanders all began running around creating secondary chaos to the primary event.
 
  • Like
Reactions: michaeelaln
Feb 21, 2021
6
12
3
my friend is at BGW tonight and he told me yes there is a fight over by Dystopia by Pompi. Can anyone explain exactly what happened if anyone sawed it? Also were there other incidents going on tonight as well? Please let me know.
 
  • Wow
  • Sad
Reactions: Logang and Mwe BGW
Login or Register to Hide This Ad