Busch Gardens Williamsburg Project 2025/Holzfäller: B&M Family Invert for Festhaus Park?

[halfabee]

Similarly a new hamlet would probably just spread out existing guests coming for foods, drinks, and entertainment or create so much new expenses in operating a major new part of the park that the ROI would be low.

This goes under appreciated IMO.

New hamlets are commitments to a bigger base of expenses along several fronts, forever. Once built, they are permanent expansions of guest facing area. There’s no reversing the decision, nor the attendant pressure to bring in incrementally more revenue in perpetuity without substantially cannibalizing the pre-existing footprint. Will guests really spend more just because they are in a 10% bigger park? Does the park definitely know how to provide genuinely unique incremental-profit-driving novelty in the new area to make that happen? Or will guests just buy a snack in the new area at the expense of the OG snack stand around the corner? It’s a bold “forever bet” in a long established park.

To me, it is completely unsurprisingly that the only new BGW hamlet in the lifetime of many people here has been the renovation of one existing hamlet footprint.

 

[horsesboy]

Throwing this point out a new hamlet would increase the park's overall guest capacity limits. Last year they hit capacity o. quite a few days and we know that has been a issue with Howl-O-Scream and Christmas Town so could the park and corporate have used a higher capacity and increased admission tickets as a justification for that investment not just a draw factor.

 

[Jonesta6]

Plus if it's in that corner and not part of the main pathway loop, if it was added for capacity they could gate it off for low attendance days. Not really a great case for ROI when that happens though they wouldn't need to pay area staff and only the bare minimum for utilities and whatnot. However, they stick a ride queue back there and all bets are off.

 

[EdReedFan20]

If it is a new country, I've said this before, but I'd love to see Norway (or the Scandinavia region in general). Norse stuff is as popular as ever. Plus, they could tie in the Invadr stuff. I could see a Mjolnir flat-ride. It would, naturally be, one of those flying hammer flat-rides, only the hammer would look like Mjolnir. Maybe they could have a funhouse that is themed to Loki and his tricks.

 

[Jonesta6]

FHP is Spain, boneyard is New Spain - sure it has no geographical continuity, but neither does Italy to Germany over a bridge. And then you get tapas and tacos...

 

[snowman6996]

I'm all down for Norway or Alaska. Something COLD. I know Alaska isn't European, but New France isn't either.

 

[Dogface]

If you asked me in 2010, I would have loved to see Russia. But nowadays I would rather see Ukraine represent Eastern Europe in the old country. Kiev is an incredibly old cultural center. Or maybe a Balkan state like Romania, or maybe even Transylvania. But always Amsterdam

 

[rswashdc]

Throwing this point out a new hamlet would increase the park's overall guest capacity limits. Last year they hit capacity o. quite a few days and we know that has been a issue with Howl-O-Scream and Christmas Town so could the park and corporate have used a higher capacity and increased admission tickets as a justification for that investment not just a draw factor.

The problem with increasing overall guest capacity is the limitations and bottle necks elsewhere, such as parking, guest services, and getting everyone through England would need to be addressed.

The other issue is on low attendance days, the park will be spread even thinner, unless hamlets are closed down completely, which isn’t a great customer experience.

 

[qdeathstar]

My general thought is at the size of BGW, neither a new coaster or a new hamlet will move the needle a lot. Adding a new coaster probably doesn’t attract many guests that aren’t already visiting the park. Similarly a new hamlet would probably just spread out existing guests coming for foods, drinks, and entertainment or create so much new expenses in operating a major new part of the park that the ROI would be low.

At BGW’s size they almost to split off a second operating park or create some kind of modular system where different parts and forms of the park are open on different days to make a major expansion make sense.

I disagree that new coaster doesn’t move the needle. The park isn’t spending millions of dollars to “not move the needle” and they kept pantheon sbno for a year in order to maximize its needle sway. Outside of that I agree with the second half of your first paragraph.

Are there any parks that operate like your second paragraph?

 

[GoHokies87]

Hasnt it already been discussed that park capacity is based on the available parking right now?

 

[rswashdc]

I disagree that new coaster doesn’t move the needle. The park isn’t spending millions of dollars to “not move the needle” and they kept pantheon sbno for a year in order to maximize its needle sway. Outside of that I agree with the second half of your first paragraph.

Are there any parks that operate like your second paragraph?

Has BGW been any busier this year due to Pantheon, or a better question, have there been multi hour lines for the ride demonstrating its impact. My hunch is the answer is no, and that the parks attendance isn’t changed much from 2021 when accounting for COVID.

Regarding modular parks, when I visited Etnaland in Italy a few years back, they did a modular approach during water park season. Basically during the day only the water park and a few dry rides were open and during the evening the dry park was completely open, with an hour or two closure in between. IIRC these were also separately ticketed, so the park made money on both times. Best local analogy I could think would be KD opening Soak City and the rides in Candy Apple Grove during the day, and once Soak City closes, opening Safari Village and Old Virginia. It‘s smart from a staffing perspective as they can do a lot more in the open parts of the park in terms of ride staffing, food, and events without the negative perception of half the attractions being closed or under staffed in an empty park.

 

[horsesboy]

Has BGW been any busier this year due to Pantheon, or a better question, have there been multi hour lines for the ride demonstrating its impact. My hunch is the answer is no, and that the parks attendance isn’t changed much from 2021 when accounting for COVID.

A couple things on this. One is after the park was allowed to go to full capacity they saw some of the highest numbers in a day to day comparison that they had seen in at least 10 years. Second is the park appeared significantly busier this spring then normal. That business has slacked off in the recent months hoe much of that is the current state of park policies or the highest cost of gas in history is anyone's guess but in my opinion it's very unfair to say that Pantheon didn't move the needle any.

 

[BGWnut]

Has BGW been any busier this year due to Pantheon, or a better question, have there been multi hour lines for the ride demonstrating its impact. My hunch is the answer is no, and that the parks attendance isn’t changed much from 2021 when accounting for COVID.

Regarding modular parks, when I visited Etnaland in Italy a few years back, they did a modular approach during water park season. Basically during the day only the water park and a few dry rides were open and during the evening the dry park was completely open, with an hour or two closure in between. IIRC these were also separately ticketed, so the park made money on both times. Best local analogy I could think would be KD opening Soak City and the rides in Candy Apple Grove during the day, and once Soak City closes, opening Safari Village and Old Virginia. It‘s smart from a staffing perspective as they can do a lot more in the open parts of the park in terms of ride staffing, food, and events without the negative perception of half the attractions being closed or under staffed in an empty park.

I can't get into specifics, but from what I'm told the park views Pantheon as a massive success.

Like @horsesboy said the reason to delay Pantheon was because last year attendance was already more than they could handle, because people were just excited to be out and able to visit. Pantheon wouldn't have moved the needle in any way because the pull was so strong from all the other outside factors.

 

[CoasterTalkBob]

Has BGW been any busier this year due to Pantheon, or a better question, have there been multi hour lines for the ride demonstrating its impact. My hunch is the answer is no, and that the parks attendance isn’t changed much from 2021 when accounting for COVID.

But Pantheon would have also swung the needle in 2020 and 2021 because numerous people bought season passes based on that attraction. Even though the attraction didn't open those people already had passes so they used them. In hindsight I think they probably got a much bigger boost in 2020 and 2021 than this year from Pantheon because of the current state of other things. I'm sure I'm not the only one who canceled my pass for 2022 after having it for two years.

 

[madmax]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who canceled my pass for 2022 after having it for two years.

Maybe like…all three of you?

 

[Dogface]

But Pantheon would have also swung the needle in 2020 and 2021 because numerous people bought season passes based on that attraction. Even though the attraction didn't open those people already had passes so they used them. In hindsight I think they probably got a much bigger boost in 2020 and 2021 than this year from Pantheon because of the current state of other things. I'm sure I'm not the only one who canceled my pass for 2022 after having it for two years.

Yup, I also canceled my BGW membership this May after having it since 2019. We rode Pantheon once and absolutely raved about it, but it was not nearly enough to sway my partner and I away from the more comprehensive additions going on at KD. Signed up for KD’s gold membership for the first time this summer.

IMO, a new hamlet or just some improved atmosphere/new shows would hold my attention way more than two new big singular attractions. My parents didn’t bring the family to the park because of the thrilling coasters. My dad went for the barbecue and beer, my mom for the live entertainment, and the little kids for the Disney-comparable experience. The best part about BGW as a kid in the 757 was having a Disney-level experience without my parents having to break the bank for it. I get that at KD now, not with Seaworld-owned BGW. Coasters are exciting, but a good ride means little to me when the park struggles to even keep all of its current attractions open on any given day, struggles to even maintain its rides’ queues. They ought to keep the boneyard bare and invest the budget into the park’s existing (and mediocre) experience. Quality over quantity, right?

 

[BGWnut]

But Pantheon would have also swung the needle in 2020 and 2021 because numerous people bought season passes based on that attraction. Even though the attraction didn't open those people already had passes so they used them. In hindsight I think they probably got a much bigger boost in 2020 and 2021 than this year from Pantheon because of the current state of other things. I'm sure I'm not the only one who canceled my pass for 2022 after having it for two years.

The problem isn't that it wouldn't have swung the needle. First they had capacity restrictions and they were nearly always reaching capacity. Once those went away they were left with demand that was already higher than they could handle. That was a trend industry wide in 2021. Pantheon opening last year wouldn't have had the effect it had this year. Last year it would have just made the overall park experience worse by bringing in a large group of people.

 

[CoasterTalkBob]

The problem isn't that it wouldn't have swung the needle. First they had capacity restrictions and they were nearly always reaching capacity. Once those went away they were left with demand that was already higher than they could handle. That was a trend industry wide in 2021. Pantheon opening last year wouldn't have had the effect it had this year. Last year it would have just made the overall park experience worse by bringing in a large group of people.

Ok, that's a valid point.... but it still would have boosted their income from pass sales even if people who were trying to use them couldn't.

 

[BGWnut]

Ok, that's a valid point.... but it still would have boosted their income from pass sales even if people who were trying to use them couldn't.

Trust me, they sold a lot of passes last year. They really didn't need to do anything last year beyond being open. They sold like crazy and broke a lot of records in the park last year. That was the power of just simply being open after 2020. This year is different, people are more willing to travel further which means BGW is having to compete with more locations again.

 

[CoasterTalkBob]

Trust me, they sold a lot of passes last year. They really didn't need to do anything last year beyond being open. They sold like crazy and broke a lot of records in the park last year. That was the power of just simply being open after 2020. This year is different, people are more willing to travel further which means BGW is having to compete with more locations again.

Right.... that goes back to my point.... Pantheon wasn't a flop because it generated a lot of revenue across 2.5 years even from people who still have yet to ride the thing.