Project 2020 (MMXX/Madrid): Intamin Multi-Launch Coaster

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Mar 16, 2016
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So wait there is another attraction coming in this expansion?
There's no indication in the documents the point to an attraction. Everything talked about stays within the boundary of the water. It seems as though its a plan for 4 footers, and a developed way to continually keep the Rhine clear of runoff through dredging every 5 years. Take away what you will about the park needing to continually dredge and area they didn't need to do that with before.
 
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horsesboy

Silver Donor
Jun 16, 2013
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I doubt the coaster is gonna cross the Rhine so yeah this sounds like another bridge and something possibly going in that Festhaus area
Or Madridbot's plans were right all a long. Not saying that is what I personally think is going on but just feel like someone needs to say it.
 

b.mac

MFW Volcano
May 14, 2011
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King George, Virginia
Impact Area 2 is the drainage basin that was featured in the previous planning documents featuring what I would assume was the footer placements. They match pretty much spot on but I'm no good at photoshop.
 
Apr 21, 2010
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Is there any possibility that the structure in question could be temporary and part of a larger construction project?
 

Gavin

No, this is Patrick.
Administrator
Sep 27, 2009
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Is there any possibility that the structure in question could be temporary and part of a larger construction project?
Considering that they will be dredging every 5 years, I would think not.

Note:Anything I post about Project Madrid is of my own opinion and thoughts, and do not in anyway reflect what @Zachary or @Nicole know or think about the project.
 
Mar 16, 2016
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Is there any possibility that the structure in question could be temporary and part of a larger construction project?
Unlikely based on what @Gavin said. Also, there are more temporary things to use in water for short term construction than concrete. Including floating cranes and just sunken base cranes.
 
Mar 16, 2016
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Is the only dredge reference that which is associated with the dredge impact area in the sediment basin, as shown on "stitched" detail from the application? Where is the reference to draining the Rhine itself or the 5 year interval? (I'm assuming in the body of the application itself?)
Are you talking drain as in take out water?

The document doesn’t say exactly where they are dredging, but if the purpose is to create sediment basins, that’s where it’s likely going to happen. And based on my past experiences, regular dredging means they are cleaning out those basins to maintain a certain water depth and or possible harmful runoff.
 
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Aug 13, 2011
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Virginia
Are you talking drain as in take out water?
I was asking about dredging versus draining, but specifically in context of your earlier comment:
...Everything talked about stays within the boundary of the water. It seems as though its a plan for 4 footers, and a developed way to continually keep the Rhine clear of runoff through dredging every 5 years. Take away what you will about the park needing to continually dredge and area they didn't need to do that with before.
1. I wasn't sure where five years came from, unless it's in the document proper, an assumption of what is in the Rhine BMP based on government guidelines, a reference to the actual BMP (I've never seen their actual BMP for the Rhine), etc. Five years is consistent with what I'd expect for the the sediment basin, I just didn't see where five specifically came from (based on what's been posted thus far).
The document doesn’t say exactly where they are dredging, but if the purpose is to create sediment basins, that’s where it’s likely going to happen. And based on my past experiences, regular dredging means they are cleaning out those basins to maintain a certain water depth and or possible harmful runoff.
2. The dredge impact area is shown in the sediment basin on the detail diagram linked above, so that's at least one area where the document shows where they're dredging. Keeping that clear on a schedule as per the Rhine BMP or general BMP guidance otherwise makes (i.e. point #1), and by keeping the basin clear, they in turn keep the Rhine clear of excess sediment which would be a goal of their BMP. By referencing dredging in the same statement about the 4 footers however, I wasn't sure whether you were just making two separate points or also saw dredging occurring in the Rhine proper. If so, where is that referenced? (And by Rhine proper, I mean the waterway post-sediment basin construction, as it appears the south shore basin is proposed within what is today water where the swail empties into the Rhine).

Just trying to clarify a few things since I don't have the document and before rumors of Rhine dredging take off, unless of course that is what the document says. FYSA, I'm late to the review party since I was out of pocket last week, but I did drop a note to @Zachary about previously looking for people who have some related professional background...
 
Mar 16, 2016
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I was asking about dredging versus draining, but specifically in context of your earlier comment:

1. I wasn't sure where five years came from, unless it's in the document proper, an assumption of what is in the Rhine BMP based on government guidelines, a reference to the actual BMP (I've never seen their actual BMP for the Rhine), etc. Five years is consistent with what I'd expect for the the sediment basin, I just didn't see where five specifically came from (based on what's been posted thus far).
The document specifically says dredging once every five years.

2. The dredge impact area is shown in the sediment basin on the detail diagram linked above, so that's at least one area where the document shows where they're dredging. Keeping that clear on a schedule as per the Rhine BMP or general BMP guidance otherwise makes (i.e. point #1), and by keeping the basin clear, they in turn keep the Rhine clear of excess sediment which would be a goal of their BMP. By referencing dredging in the same statement about the 4 footers however, I wasn't sure whether you were just making two separate points or also saw dredging occurring in the Rhine proper. If so, where is that referenced? (And by Rhine proper, I mean the waterway post-sediment basin construction, as it appears the south shore basin is proposed within what is today water where the swail empties into the Rhine).

Just trying to clarify a few things since I don't have the document and before rumors of Rhine dredging take off, unless of course that is what the document says. FYSA, I'm late to the review party since I was out of pocket last week, but I did drop a note to @Zachary about previously looking for people who have some related professional background...
The document wasn't really clear on where the original dredging will happen. It stated that there were two total amounts, assumed to be the drainage basins.
 
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Aug 1, 2010
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Seven Pines, Virginia
I was asking about dredging versus draining, but specifically in context of your earlier comment:

1. I wasn't sure where five years came from, unless it's in the document proper, an assumption of what is in the Rhine BMP based on government guidelines, a reference to the actual BMP (I've never seen their actual BMP for the Rhine), etc. Five years is consistent with what I'd expect for the the sediment basin, I just didn't see where five specifically came from (based on what's been posted thus far).
Just for clarity and to avoid some of the confusion. As per the document, the entire Rhine River is considered a BMP. It is referred in multiple locations within the document as "Rhine River BMP". What this means is there is not a separate stand alone BMP dedicated to the Rhine. The proposed basin shown in the @halfabee post is a forebay utilized to intercept sediment, debris and trash before it makes its way into the main lake. It is easier to clean a forebay than the entire lake.

Some of the dredging will occur along the south side in the cove that will house the forebay. Other dredging appears to be small areas to maintain the main channel. And yes, the document states that it is a five year re-occurance.
 
Aug 13, 2011
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Perfect, thank you. Yes, I know the Rhine is its own BMP, it's just I have never seen a copy of the document. This isn't the first time the BMP has appeared on documents though (Finnegan's most recently references it as well). And since I don't have this application either, I was "assuming" that it was the that application that specified the best practice of five years to clean out the sediment basin/forebay, and that matches up with the dredge impact area on the diagram...

Does the application mention anything about the channel, or is that an assumption? I would expect the BMP has a reference to the channel already, especially since the cruise operates on the river.

Just trying to interpret the scope of what is in the application (and clarify to avoid confusion)... Thus far, my main takeaways are related to impacts to Festhaus Park and of a river crossing*, but unless there's more to the application, I can imagine a myriad of possibilities...

* edit: I no longer think this is indicative of a crossing. See later post
 
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Aug 13, 2011
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I spent a few minutes this evening trying to reconcile a few pieces of data from the permitting process...namely, the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area (CBPA) application that shows the footers of the "attraction," and the recent Joint Permit Application (JPA) filed first with VA Marine Resources Commission for the dredging... As the movie goes, "please excuse the crudity of this model..." Caveats that the plans behind either of both of these of course may have changed since filing.

Red line is simply the 70' contour that I enhanced to try to align the diagrams. Will continue to think through possible ways of reconciling these data...particularly the piles.


CBPA & Dredge JPA Overlay.png
 
May 11, 2011
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What are the odds they are rerouting the railroad?
I would think that would be highly unlikely, considering the type of piles they're using. Also, if you look at pictures of the existing tressle (below), there is a much longer span length with the truss-style bridge. The footers seem to be too close together for a bridge that could easily span most of the Rhine.

Image: SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment, Inc.
 
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