Project 2019: Finnegan's Flyer (S&S Screamin' Swing)

[WDWRLD]

Im sorry but no. In any development project the first question is “can the infrastructure handle it”. The first time I was overseeing a project that was the first thing my boss said to me.

Step 1: Pick what you want; S&S Flyer
Step 2: Find where in you infrastructure can take the power/drainage loads
Step 3: Pick plots of land in the infrastructure that can be developed
Step 4: figure out how to get it there.

Obviously the infrastructure can handle it, were not talking about building a Walmart on one side of a city or the other, were discussing building a ride on one side of a ditch and access road or the other. They obviously dont need it in New France, Italy or Germany so no matter where they put it in Ireland they could run a service drop to it.
I think the real discussion was "we need a ride in Ireland, what can we build there".

 

[Zachary]

You all would be dumbfounded by how much of the park's recent history has been determined entirely by the results of grid capacity surveys.

 

[warfelg]

Obviously the infrastructure can handle it, were not talking about building a Walmart on one side of a city or the other, were discussing building a ride on one side of a ditch and access road or the other. They obviously dont need it in New France, Italy or Germany so no matter where they put it in Ireland they could run a service drop to it.
I think the real discussion was "we need a ride in Ireland, what can we build there".

Your underestimating how much power goes into a ride. With the screaming swing you’ll have: ride sign, lights/TVs in the queue, control panel systems, ride safety equipment, air pistons, air pumps (huge power vampire). All in all that’s more than a Walmart, and in all honesty, big box stores aren’t all that much of a tax on a power grid compared to something like a ride which continually starts and stops.

@Zachary is 100% right on the amount of decisions that are infrastructure first decisions. Every single park is that way.

 

[WDWRLD]

Your underestimating how much power goes into a ride. With the screaming swing you’ll have: ride sign, lights/TVs in the queue, control panel systems, ride safety equipment, air pistons, air pumps (huge power vampire). All in all that’s more than a Walmart, and in all honesty, big box stores aren’t all that much of a tax on a power grid compared to something like a ride which continually starts and stops.

So your saying that Flyer will cost BGW anywhere from $20,000 to $30,000 a month in electricity? No wonder my membership went up....lol. I understand startup loads of large motors, as well as power distribution grids and comercial wiring and I just do not see that as the deciding factor of where the park put the ride. Again, there needed to be something to distribute the crowd to that side of the park and this is their answer.

 

[Zimmy]

Your underestimating how much power goes into a ride. With the screaming swing you’ll have: ride sign, lights/TVs in the queue, control panel systems, ride safety equipment, air pistons, air pumps (huge power vampire). All in all that’s more than a Walmart, and in all honesty, big box stores aren’t all that much of a tax on a power grid compared to something like a ride which continually starts and stops.

@Zachary is 100% right on the amount of decisions that are infrastructure first decisions. Every single park is that way.

Not to mention the 3 phase motors to drive the system.

 

[GrandpaD]

For all you electrical wizards from S&S's spec sheet -

Power requirement - 480V/3 phase/60Hz
Power consumption - starting at 420 kW for 32 passenger design

 

[Zimmy]

That is a big ass motor.
The math gets wonky because it is 480 and 3 phase. But consider 4200 100 watt light bulbs turning on at once. Also those bulbs run at 480 VAC not 120 VAC.

 

[WDWRLD]

For all you electrical wizards from S&S's spec sheet -

Power requirement - 480V/3 phase/60Hz
Power consumption - starting at 420 kW for 32 passenger design

So 600A roughly for the ride. The things like lighting and signage and tv monitors are miniumal with LED drivers.

 

[GrandpaD]

That is a big ass motor.
The math gets wonky because it is 480 and 3 phase. But consider 4200 100 watt light bulbs turning on at once. Also those bulbs run at 480 VAC not 120 VAC.

Isn't this ride run using compressed air? So that would be (maybe a couple) of big compressors. I read some parks run just 1 swing on slow days.

 

[Ice]

Compressors use a TON of electricity to run. They are unreasonable.

Anyone with a dehumidifier ever noticed that their electrical bill is mighty pricey whenever it is on?

 

[warfelg]

Compressors use a TON of electricity to run. They are unreasonable.

Anyone with a dehumidifier ever noticed that their electrical bill is mighty pricey whenever it is on?

Yup. A/C units are a form of an air compressor too. Imagine that pump on an industrial scale. That huge amounts of power.

I understand startup loads of large motors, as well as power distribution grids and comercial wiring and I just do not see that as the deciding factor of where the park put the ride.

Well (1) re-read what @Zachary said about the power stuff. There's a guy with inside contact telling you how strained the power grid is. I came to that without the help just based on.

Then consider (2) the big 'power suckers' of the park being Alpie, Apollo, Nessie, Griffin, InvadR, Escape from Pompii, Battle for Erie, Mach Tower. Then the biggies: Verbolten, Tempesto, Skyride. Those things all use so much off the power distribution.

Next there's (3) the fact that we don't know what the grids are like. We don't know if it's evenly divided, criss-crossing the park.

That absolutely decides first where the load capacity is to handle a ride in picking where it should do. If what powered Ireland's are was on the same grid as Bolt, BfE, the Skyride, and Nessie, there would be very little chance for it to handle the S&S. But if it is one (as I suspect) the same grid as Griff, InvadR and BfE; then it can handle it.

 

[WDWRLD]

Um...ok

 

[Ice]

I forgot how we started talking about this in the first place and why it even matters at this rate

 

[GrandpaD]

For whatever it's worth, here's a picture of one of two compressed air tanks for one at Thorpe Park. It's a 32 rider version. That's a lot of compressed air.

 

[----------------------]

You all would be dumbfounded by how much of the park's recent history has been determined entirely by the results of grid capacity surveys.

Care to post any anecdotes?

 

[Zachary]

Care to post any anecdotes?

Maybe in mid-2020... ?

 

[Ice]

Maybe in mid-2020... ?

You tease, you haunt my nightmares

 

[horsesboy]

Maybe in mid-2020... ?

Hmmm that seems to suggest all kind of possibilities.

 

[----------------------]

Maybe in mid-2020... ?

Now you're just holding out because you can, or you're full of it. I'd say a little of both ?

 

[Zimmy]

So 600A roughly for the ride. The things like lighting and signage and tv monitors are miniumal with LED drivers.

BLUF
I'm not sure how you came up with a figure of 600A I get 1443.38 total. (2 significant digits)

It is also worth noting that Amps is just a measurement of resistance (EDIT) CURRENT. What we care about are the Watts, (EDIT) a measurement of energy transfer.

(about the edit: I had Ohms Law on the brain and mistakenly said resistance.)

With household current it is a straight forward calculation, the "West Virginia Law" Watts = Volts x Amps. So if this were NOT 3 phase, and of course it is the calculation is:

Power requirement - 480V/3 phase/60Hz
Power consumption - starting at 420 kW

If this were a SINGLE Phase motor, assuming the same values

420 KW = 480 x Amps
420,000 / 480 = 875 Amps


HOWEVER this is not a simple single phase residential motor.
No, this is 3 Phase so the maths get harder.

From Rapidtables.com

The phase current I in amps (A) is equal to the power P in watts (W), divided by square root of 3 times the power factor PF times the line to line RMS voltage VL-L in volts (V):

I(A) = P(W) / (√3 × PF × VL-L(V) )

So you see we have to now know the power factor:

Again from RapidTables.com

Power factor definition

The power factor is equal to the real or true power P in watts (W) divided by the apparent power |S| in volt-ampere (VA):

PF = P(W) / |S(VA)|

PF - power factor.

P - real power in watts (W).

|S| - apparent power - the magnitude of the complex power in volt⋅amps (VA).

We do not know the actual Power Factor, but we can assume it is an induction motor and calculate startup with NO LOAD.

In this case .35

I will spare you the algebra, if you really want to know go to RapidTables they have a calculator.

But without knowing EVERYTHING the Amps = 1443.38 (2 significant digits)

No matter how you slice it, this is not 600 Amp service.