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What if the park decided to reutilize the area that was made for Drachen Fire and added a wing coaster based on the old coaster? It'd basically have a similar layout to DF with a few adjustments so that it can still work as a wing coaster. I think this would kinda make sense, as it'd be themed to, well, dragon fire (imagine my shock at that one). It'd also be the first wing coaster to have DF's nostalgic drop. Speaking of nostalgia, yeah. There'd be tons of that going around.

Anyway, this was just an idea. What do y'all think of this?
 
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Much as Cedar Point targeted Disaster Transport, Mantis, and Mean Streak one by one throughout this decade, BGW should really consider doing something about Verbolten in the next decade. Verbolten is as much of a weak link in BGW's lineup that uses up prime real estate, as the three aforementioned rides were to Cedar Point.

The Rougarou treatment: Just changing the vehicles up a little. Over-the-shoulder seatbelts to deaden forces/transitions and make for a more comfortable ride.

The reverse Steel Vengeance treatment: I say reverse, because the goal is to remove intensity from an awkward ride, not add it to a boring ride. Rip out everything between the show building and the final drop (including the drop track). The new ride hugs the terrain, and the final drop is reduced to a more mellow 40-60 ft. Hopefully this can get a lower minimum height in the process.

The GateKeeper treatment: As GateKeeper destroyed an eyesore show building, so will this. Shall a new-generation suspended coaster be unfeasible, give us a (launched?) flying coaster in its place - if we can't take the Big Bad Wolf ending swinging, then flying is even better. I say launched because the plot might not be big enough to get a high enough lift hill. Instead of the big drop into the final turns, it'd be a zero-g roll. This will give us a better flying coaster than the rough Nighthawk or unreliable Batwing. Yes, this won't be a family coaster due to minimum height, but neither was GateKeeper.

The latter two options would be accompanied by reforestation.

What if the park decided to reutilize the area that was made for Drachen Fire and added a wing coaster based on the old coaster? It'd basically have a similar layout to DF with a few adjustments so that it can still work as a wing coaster. I think this would kinda make sense, as it'd be themed to, well, dragon fire (imagine my shock at that one). It'd also be the first wing coaster to have DF's nostalgic drop. Speaking of nostalgia, yeah. There'd be tons of that going around.

Anyway, this was just an idea. What do y'all think of this?
Loved GateKeeper's wing over drop. A wraparound corkscrew would be amazing taken on a wing rider.
 
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Shane

ParkFans Founder
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Jun 2, 2011
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I really can't comprehend your disdain for Verbolten. It's become obsessive and has bled into every thread.

I realize this is supposed to be a "concept," but it's not even remotely something that is in the realm of possibility. Considering it took 40 years for Nessie to receive new trains, and there are much older rides in BGW's collection such as, Alpengiest that are in much higher need of modification, this "concept" just seems ridiculous.

In my opinion you are just hiding behind the guise of a concept to take another opportunity to bitch and complain about what is actually a groundbreaking coaster that took risks and set out to do something that had never been done before.

You've made it abundantly clear that you hate Verbolten, why don't you give all of us a break?
 
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I really can't comprehend your disdain for Verbolten. It's become obsessive and has bled into every thread.

I realize this is supposed to be a "concept," but it's not even remotely something that is in the realm of possibility. Considering it took 40 years for Nessie to receive new trains, and there are much older rides in BGW's collection such as, Alpengiest that are in much higher need of modification, this "concept" just seems ridiculous.

In my opinion you are just hiding behind the guise of a concept to take another opportunity to bitch and complain about what is actually a groundbreaking coaster that took risks and set out to do something that had never been done before.

You've made it abundantly clear that you hate Verbolten, why don't you give all of us a break?
This Reddit thread ripped open the wound, hence the comparisons to Cedar Point's past coasters: https://www.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters/comments/9nbl4k - Verbolten's footprint is very large for what it is.

I appreciate Verbolten's ambition, as well as the engineering that went into a true freefall drop track and running five long trains on a ride not even 3,000 feet long, but the ride experience is still the weakest out of BGW's major coasters in my experience - it's as far behind the rest of the coasters as I'm told Disaster Transport / Mantis / Mean Streak were as each of them got dealt with.

How would OTSRs improve Verbolten?
Not actual OTSRs. They'd turn Verbolten into a headbanger. Just seatbelts - smaller and thinner than even Tempesto's Comfort Collars - to absorb the quick directional changes.

Okay, the "add seat belts" and "replace most of the track" were mostly more of my usual Verbolten bashing (which I would have edited out if I hadn't hit "post" too soon), but the flat-out replacement was a more serious one. My intent with that was that so much better could be done with the plot. I'm reminded of the "end of its service life" lines used in the announcements of the removals of Big Bad Wolf and Firehawk respectively. I can believe KI easier, because I saw Firehawk break down for most of the day when I was there (and Bat ran fine despite being the same age as the Wolf when it was killed). But in both cases, I suspected that the respective parks saw that a new ride was a better use of the land. As for BGW, wasn't the Oktoberfest area being revamped greatly around the time? I'll elaborate more on Firehawk in its thread.

There was a thread about using the Drachen plot for a flying coaster, and recreating the wraparound corkscrew in flying position, and then the idea about using a wing coaster instead. The Wolf plot would be much better for a flying coaster than the Drachen plot would be. The former Wolf footers were meant for a ride whose trains are below the track - suspended, inverted, or flying.

...But then there's the loading times. So many flying coasters use dual stations, which would require replacing the original Big Bad Wolf station. In this case, I think that would be an acceptable sacrifice, so long as the new station is done right.
 

Zachary

Administrator
Sep 23, 2009
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Ignoring everything else for a moment...

There's literally no reason for BGW to do anything about Verbolten. Why? It's literally one of the most popular rides in the park. People love the thing. Plus, it runs fairly reliably year-round.

I know you don't like it, but it has become an incredibly important ride for BGW.
 
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Speaking of replacing and updating:

I wouldn’t mind seeing Alpie get the Hulk treatment from B&M. I think I would happily give up a year of it to see her (him? They?) rebuilt. Get that glass smooth ride back, the new Inverted trains on there, and fix my two biggest faux pas with Alpie: the MCBR should be a bridge too, and better theme elements in the back half.
 

Zimmy

Nessie thinks it is not polite to ask her age!
Sep 28, 2013
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Ignoring everything else for a moment...

There's literally no reason for BGW to do anything about Verbolten. Why? It's literally one of the most popular rides in the park. People love the thing. Plus, it runs fairly reliably year-round.

I know you don't like it, but it has become an incredibly important ride for BGW.
Not to pile on, but it has been my experience (and this should be read with that in mind) that Bolt regularly has a longer wait then most other rides. That alone speaks to its popularity.
 
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Fine, they still have Festa (which Project Madrid is supposed to use) and Drachen's plots to fill. But once those are used up, Verbolten's days are numbered.

Not to pile on, but it has been my experience (and this should be read with that in mind) that Bolt regularly has a longer wait then most other rides. That alone speaks to its popularity.
Sigh, and that's with the amazing capacity. As opposed to Nighthawk getting the longest lines at Carowinds with its atrocious capacity.

Speaking of replacing and updating:

I wouldn’t mind seeing Alpie get the Hulk treatment from B&M. I think I would happily give up a year of it to see her (him? They?) rebuilt. Get that glass smooth ride back, the new Inverted trains on there, and fix my two biggest faux pas with Alpie: the MCBR should be a bridge too, and better theme elements in the back half.
Does Alpie still get the crowds to warrant an MCBR? Alpie's turn into the MCBR is tied with Raptor's turn into the final brake run as the worst headbanger (and that's saying something, their respective cobra rolls are absolutely whippy). But since this is a "Hulk" job and not a "Blue Hawk" job, I guess they could rework the MCBR turn's profile.

I have to admit I'd take a "Hulk"'d Alpie over my neutered Bolt.
 
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Zimmy

Nessie thinks it is not polite to ask her age!
Sep 28, 2013
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Is there some mysterious "Crowd" button that ops push to activate MCBRs?
 

Shane

ParkFans Founder
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Jun 2, 2011
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Fine, they still have Festa (which Project Madrid is supposed to use) and Drachen's plots to fill. But once those are used up, Verbolten's days are numbered.
This is also not true. The ride is only 6 seasons old. The park still has over 100 acres of unused land that they own and can expand into. Assuming Busch Gardens still exists in in 5, 10, 20 years, Verbolten will still be around for the next 20 years at a minimum if not much longer.

You also keep comparing Verbolten to 15-20+ year old rides at Cedar Fair Parks that have a history of low capacity compared to the monster capacity machine that is Bolty. On top of that, the rides you're comparing it to have lower than normal crowd levels and significantly higher reliability issues. Zeirer has a much better reliability score compared to 90s Era Veko Flyers and the like.

If you want to compare Verbolten to other coasters you need to compare it to other coasters that are in the same class of rides as Bolty, not wildly different ride types.

I honestly don't know what roughness you complain about on Bolt, it's not glass smooth by any means but neither are the majority of steel coasters out there. Be thankful that BGW didn't hire S&S to build the ride in 2012 because their coasters up until this year had some of the worst track manufacturering in the industry.

Call this a concept if you want, but as I said in my last post, you have so much unwarranted hate for what many consider to be a decent ride.
 
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My grudge against Verbolten only ends when it's scrapped or a Mid-Atlantic park gets a true suspended coaster. Maybe I should fight for the latter instead.

But what are these other areas other than Festa and Drachen they could expand into before needing to eye Verbolten's plot?

Is there some mysterious "Crowd" button that ops push to activate MCBRs?
Indirectly? Two-train ops usually mean the MCBR isn't used. Usually, because Steel Vengeance was still using the MCBR when Digger was out of service.
 

Zachary

Administrator
Sep 23, 2009
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But what are these other areas other than Festa and Drachen they could expand into before needing to eye Verbolten's plot?
  • DarKastle
  • Roman Rapids (high costs, staffing intensive, limited operating season)
  • Escape from Pompeii (very high costs, poor reliability, limited operating season)
  • Battle for Eire (high costs, staffing intensive, poor reliability)
  • The Wild Reserve (largely vacant—especially the Aquitaine-side)
  • Behind Battle for Eire/Castle O'Sullivan (Between Banbury/the Entry Area and the England Lot)
  • Behind the Royal Palace Theater/Le Catapult (Inside Train Turn)
  • Between Land of the Dragons & Oktoberfest (Old Bridge Location)
  • Nearly Infinite Room Around Festhaus Park
  • Between Loch Ness Monster & San Marco
  • Behind Roman Rapids (HOS Location & Surrounding Area)
  • The Parking Lots (Sesame Place?)
 
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  • DarKastle
  • Roman Rapids (high costs, staffing intensive, limited operating season)
  • Escape from Pompeii (very high costs, poor reliability, limited operating season)
  • Battle for Eire (high costs, staffing intensive, poor reliability)
  • The Wild Reserve (largely vacant—especially the Aquitaine-side)
  • Behind Battle for Eire/Castle O'Sullivan (Between Banbury/the Entry Area and the England Lot)
  • Behind the Royal Palace Theater/Le Catapult (Inside Train Turn)
  • Between Land of the Dragons & Oktoberfest (Old Bridge Location)
  • Nearly Infinite Room Around Festhaus Park
  • Between Loch Ness Monster & San Marco
  • Behind Roman Rapids (HOS Location & Surrounding Area)
  • The Parking Lots (Sesame Place?)
You've got me beat for now. I will admit Roman Rapids is much higher on the chopping block list than Verbolten is.

Soaking rides in dry parks are on their way out in the age of cell phones. This is also why I want to see Renegade Rapids at SFA gone, which would ultimately allow for a path between Batwing and Mind Eraser / Roar and massive expansion. White Water Canyon is safe for now, it's next to Shenandoah Lumber Company, another wet ride, and rather tucked away. KD could use the Dinos/go-karts area instead. But back to the Roman Rapids plot, it would make for a pretty good spot for a suspended or flying coaster. It could cross the water like Apollo, there's a spot on the other side that wouldn't end up interacting with Apollo.

Escape from Pompeii should only be replaced with a water coaster. It is to BGW what Volcano is to KD - still iconic, however temperamental it is. We also don't want to destroy sight lines from Nessie.

DarKastle, if it's not used for a dark ride again, would be a decent indoor spinner.

A junior invert between Land of the Dragons and Mach Tower might work, being a companion to Alpengeist.

Many of the others would involve destroying sight lines, much as I'd like to see a GateKeeper/Leviathan/Fury (obviously smaller) interacting with the entrance area, or would be a little tight (a Euro-Fighter type ride wouldn't add much with Griffon around).
 
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