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Move from the coaster collection Identity

Post: #1
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KD is known for being a coaster collector, the whole company of Cedar Fair is in nature. Could they decide to change their direction and go a more traditional route such as idk, BGW? I feel that they struggle to compete with BGW, outside of the Halloween season. If they want to make this a real theme park, not an amusement park, they will need to do a few things

1: Cut at least 5 coasters

The park has way too many coasters, they need to cut at least 5 coasters, I'd pick Shock wave,Anaconda, Ricochet, Hurler, and Rebel Yell all need to go. their time has come and gone, or in shock wave's case, never really came at all. I wouldn't replace these with coasters either. in fact, I would have a stretch of trees from where rebel yell to Hurler used to be. Maybe put a couple trails in their and you have a beautiful attraction added only at the expense of a few mediocre coasters.

2: have a solid theme

It's called a theme park for a reason, it needs a theme. The Congo Area of the park has an OK theme, so does Int street. I love Old Virginia. The Whole park needs to be themed to Old Virginia, even some elements of Planet Snoopy. Overall it would make the park a better place to visit.

3: add some dark rides

Boo Blasters is awesome, more rides like that is what this park needs. A darkastle type ride would be great as well as maybe another indoor coaster? FOF is amazing.

Cedar Fair has to go along with this, They need to realize that coaster collectors are not as popular as other parks. Hopefully if we gain enough KD fans the park will watch us, similar to what BGW does with BGWfans
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Post: #2
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Sorry to say this but KD is an Amusement Park straight up. Each park has its own target customers. Even parks that are close to each other can have a different target customer. KD has potential to transform into a Theme Park and become one of the world's best, almsot every park has that option. The problem is, like I said they have a different audience their catering to.

KD is purely more for teenage thrill junkies that could careless about quality and theme and just care about riding rides, not even caring if their good or not. Whereas, BGW is more for a whole family, older people, coaster enthusiasts, etc. BGW's coasters are most of the time world record makers. This please the enthusiasts, but fro families, the parents and teen could careless they are just rides to ride, and there is plenty for the younger kids, shows that appeal to all sorts fo family members, etc.

Now, if KD was really determined and saw more value going in another direction, they would have to throw tons of capital all over the place and rebrand and consistent brand. This would take years and years and during the entire process, having mixed brands would be bad for business.

I don't want to sound like a KD hater, because in reality I may not like them but that is okay because they don't appeal to me, but when I look at it, it all comes down to branding, target customer, money, and time. All of which play important roles in a successful park.
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10/25/12 at 12:49am in Move from the coaster collection Identity (Latest Edit: 10/25/12 at 12:50am by b.mac.)
Post: #3
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(10/24/12 11:42pm)Party Rocker Wrote:  Sorry to say this but KD is an Amusement Park straight up.
Go to Congo, get back to me on that. They aren't "straight up" amusments, they're more themed amusements (See: FoF, Volcano, Backlot, Crypt, Grizzly pre-Dinos Alive).

Quote:KD is purely more for teenage thrill junkies that could careless about quality and theme and just care about riding rides, not even caring if their good or not. Whereas, BGW is more for a whole family, older people, coaster enthusiasts, etc. BGW's coasters are most of the time world record makers. This please the enthusiasts, but fro families, the parents and teen could careless they are just rides to ride, and there is plenty for the younger kids, shows that appeal to all sorts fo family members, etc.

If KD is strictly for Teenage Thrill Junkies then why are they dumping so much into revamping their kiddie areas into one large one? BGW is definitely more well rounded, but often doesn't appeal as much towards enthusiasts making the trips down as KD does. While BGW boasts better all around rides, the sheer number that KD has often coaxes most enthusiasts to visit both parks over multiple days.

There have only been three rides to be world record breakers in the parks history and those are Loch Ness (World's Tallest, Fastest), Alpengeist (all sorts of invert records), and Griffon (Tallest Vertical Drop). That's hardly enough to be considered "most of the time" when they've had 12 coasters in their history. Loch Ness wasn't even toted as the World's Tallest and Fastest when it was built, just the fact that it was the first full circuit to have interlocking loops. Pretty much making it 2 coasters that are world record breakers.

Quote:Now, if KD was really determined and saw more value going in another direction, they would have to throw tons of capital all over the place and rebrand and consistent brand. This would take years and years and during the entire process, having mixed brands would be bad for business.

I don't want to sound like a KD hater, because in reality I may not like them but that is okay because they don't appeal to me, but when I look at it, it all comes down to branding, target customer, money, and time. All of which play important roles in a successful park.

KD has been jostled around a lot in its life anyways, you can see what has happened through the parks history and its various owners. It's way more noticeable than at its sister park Kings Island. From Taft, to KECO, to Paramount, to Cedar Fair, all of its owners' marks can clearly be seen in the parks rides and themes. Hurler, FoF, and Backlot were Paramount's brainchilds, while older rides like Grizzly, Shockwave, Rebel Yell, and Avalanche were either Taft or KECO. You also have i305 and Dominator displaying the Cedar Fair banners.

The park's image is that of a conglomeration of influences over the years, all of which bode the feeling of trying to jam a piece that doesn't fit into a puzzle. Cedar Fair doesn't really care about theme as you can see from both coasters, Windseeker, and Dinosaurs Alive, but Congo and Old Virginia show that the park once cared about themeing. Those subtle overlying themes are definitely going to stay with Congo as long as Volcano is there, because honestly it's the centerpiece of Congo and without it there's no actual use for the Congo theme. This is compounded by its neighbors FoF, i305, and Backlot, each tearing away at the overall theme of a good chunk of the park.

If Kings Dominion really wants to ditch it's theme park roots, it has to get rid of Volcano. Otherwise it might as well never happen.
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Post: #4
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I think of that area as the coaster district. :-D

Yes, horror, fright, gore! We need more EVIL!
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Post: #5
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KD is an amusement park straight up. That being said, it can't hurt to add some theming to the park. I'd love to see the park go back to its roots and bring back things like the safari and Candy Apple Grove.

- Bring back the safari. Safaris are pretty popular with families and it would definitely make the park a two-day trip instead of a credit run with a few big rides here and there. After visiting BGT and SWO, I really enjoyed the animal exhibits and thought they were really well-made. Those could definitely fit in KD or BGW.

- The water park needs to be expanded. I've stated this tons of times at KD Fansite and TPR. Take out the old Hurricane Reef slides and give that entire area a makeover with some new slides similar to what SF did with Riptide Bay plus upgraded buildings. When I was there in 2004, that area of the park looked depressing. Most ideal plan would be to scrap Anaconda and the Hurricane Reef slides and bring Lake Charles back.

- Spread out additions instead of adding huge new rides every other year. Just spend a few years off improving the infrastructure and the atmosphere then top it off with a capital investment like a new coaster or huge flat. Hurler and Anaconda can be replaced with something better. I'd love to see Rebel Yell's original entrance come back instead of that crappy sign they have now.

- Transport rides never hurt. Bringing the monorail/Old Dominion line back would be cool.\

Otherwise, they're mostly a rides park with a few themed attractions here and there. Nothing wrong with that as it's worked for the park for the past 30 years. Yes things can be improved, but things can be improved in Williamsburg too.

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Post: #6
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The park as a whole is an Amusement Park because it has NO CENTRAL THEME. The actual rides do have some theme, and I'm sure the park cared at one point, but they having been selling quantity over quality for many years and its worked for them, so I don't see why'd they change now.

I consider enthusiasts to be people who are interested solely in the more notable record making coasters.

But whereas BGW has kid things all around, KD is making one large place so that kids can be corralled? I would say that the majority of their rides a not anywhere near kid-friendly.

Don't forget Verbolten's records, and I believe BBW had some type of record, nothing major but it had one. Also, I think Apollo's getting in the top 10 best steel roller coasters year after year isn't so much a record but more of an impressive achievement. And just because I park doesn't gloat about a record doesn't mean that record doesn't exist.

Point being, A LOT has to change before KD can do anything. So much that I would bet KD wouldn't want to waste their time on it.
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Post: #7
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I hope it gets bought by the people who run Holiday world. they know how to run a park! But, There's probably a better chance I'll be an astronaut than that happening. sigh..
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Post: #8
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(10/25/12 01:53pm)Party Rocker Wrote:  I consider enthusiasts to be people who are interested solely in the more notable record making coasters.

A remark like this is basically a slap in the face to other enthusiasts. If my lone purpose of being a coaster enthusiast was to ride record breakers I'd have only gone to 10-15 parks for the supposed "greatest" coasters and have Millennium Force in my top 3 and all the other one trick ponies somewhere in there, too. There are coasters that are well into the top 5's and top 10's of countless enthusiasts lists like Bizarro (SFNE) and Phoenix (Knoebels); which that don't actually break any notable records.

Quote:Don't forget Verbolten's records, and I believe BBW had some type of record, nothing major but it had one. Also, I think Apollo's getting in the top 10 best steel roller coasters year after year isn't so much a record but more of an impressive achievement. And just because I park doesn't gloat about a record doesn't mean that record doesn't exist.

Could you please elaborate about Verbolten's records? BBW while you're at it, too. Seriously the only "record" that VBolt has to its name is that it's the first drop track coaster in America, which is such a huge deal that everybody has to go book a trip to ride it!

It doesn't matter if a ride is constantly in the top 10 all the time, Nitro has consistently been in the top 5 in the GTA awards all its life and you don't see enthusiasts or the park latching onto that, instead they go bragging about the incredible experience of the ride. Apollo's gets the same treatment, too.

The whole record breaking niche in the amusement industry is a marketing ploy to attract more guests, if a park builds a record breaking coaster and does not market about those said records it's quite frankly a waste of their time and resources. One great example would be Outlaw Run, which is featuring 3 inversions, an 81 degree drop, and elements that seem pretty much otherworldly to even the most veteran of coaster enthusiasts. If Silver Dollar City just chooses to ignore those feats, their marketing won't have as much grab. I mean seriously, I'd rather hear "record holding hybrid coaster! New for 2013 visit now!" than the same snippets without the mentions of records. Parks make record breaking coasters to gloat about it.
Quote:But whereas BGW has kid things all around, KD is making one large place so that kids can be corralled? I would say that the majority of their rides a not anywhere near kid-friendly.

Ricochet, Triple Spin, Avalanche, Backlot, Flying Eagles, Turnpike. They may not be as pronounced as BGW has, but they do have kid friendly rides throughout the park. It's cousin park Cedar Point, which is hailed as a thrill seeker's paradise, also has a large amount of kid-friendly rides scattered around the park along with a large definitive kiddie area.

Quote:Point being, A LOT has to change before KD can do anything. So much that I would bet KD wouldn't want to waste their time on it.

This is really the only thing I agree with you about, although by different means. With Kings Dominion's history written all over the park I'm pretty sure the easiest thing to do is wipe the slate clean, but this isn't Roller Coaster Tycoon so there's no way it's feasible. The best course of action is just to slowly let the park's older rides reach the end of their lifespans and replace them with more modern rides, slowly removing the past influences over time.

Plenty of the rides at KD are already near the end of their service life, or already in the window. Shockwave, Anaconda, Avalanche, Rebel Yell, Hurler, and Grizzly all come to mind. Rumors have placed that Anaconda and Shockwave are on the block but there has yet to be any real traction to either of them going within the next 2-3 years. Hurler is also staying for at least another year due to retracking efforts over the offseason. Really the only thing keeping these rides from operating to those time frames are catastrophic failures like those of what happened to Chiller and Son of Beast.

tl;dr from last quote bit: Kings Dominion is closer to a large overhaul than you think, just it likely won't be as pronounced as say, Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, USO, USO:IoA, etc. All you have to do is play the waiting game.
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Post: #9
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(10/25/12 01:53pm)Party Rocker Wrote:  The park as a whole is an Amusement Park because it has NO CENTRAL THEME. The actual rides do have some theme, and I'm sure the park cared at one point, but they having been selling quantity over quality for many years and its worked for them, so I don't see why'd they change now.

I consider enthusiasts to be people who are interested solely in the more notable record making coasters.

But whereas BGW has kid things all around, KD is making one large place so that kids can be corralled? I would say that the majority of their rides a not anywhere near kid-friendly.

Don't forget Verbolten's records, and I believe BBW had some type of record, nothing major but it had one. Also, I think Apollo's getting in the top 10 best steel roller coasters year after year isn't so much a record but more of an impressive achievement. And just because I park doesn't gloat about a record doesn't mean that record doesn't exist.

Point being, A LOT has to change before KD can do anything. So much that I would bet KD wouldn't want to waste their time on it.
What record did verbolten break? Most breakdowns? Tongue and I like kd the way it is, the theme is terrible compared to Busch gardens. But I go to kd to ride rides, after rides, after rides without having to walk very far. If I want to go somewhere to just enjoy the atmosphere, I would go to bg
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Post: #10
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Last I check Verbolten has the first vertical drop in the Western Hemisphere, that classifies record to me. It may not be the first in the world, but it is first in a different market, the US market that is.

And that is my point, KD can never be a Theme Park and will always be an Amusement Park simply because it is for people who want nothing but rides and rides to ride, no matter how mediocre they are. Sure there are other things to do but it is mostly rides, all with clashing themes.
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Post: #11
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Quote:I consider enthusiasts to be people who are interested solely in the more notable record making coasters.
I'm definitely out of this league too. There are rides out there that I'd totally ride over record breaking rides (305, Bizarro, Skyrush).

Quote:Last I check Verbolten has the first vertical drop in the Western Hemisphere, that classifies record to me. It may not be the first in the world, but it is first in a different market, the US market that is.
Not a very significant record. That would be like having the title of bring a country's first roller coaster, but that coaster is a kiddie coaster or a common clone. To be fair though, Verbolten is the only launch coaster in the world with a freefall drop.

Quote:Plenty of the rides at KD are already near the end of their service life, or already in the window. Shockwave, Anaconda, Avalanche, Rebel Yell, Hurler, and Grizzly all come to mind. Rumors have placed that Anaconda and Shockwave are on the block but there has yet to be any real traction to either of them going within the next 2-3 years. Hurler is also staying for at least another year due to retracking efforts over the offseason. Really the only thing keeping these rides from operating to those time frames are catastrophic failures like those of what happened to Chiller and Son of Beast.

Shockwave still has a good service life. From what I've heard, the ride is still popular with the public and it's got low maintenance. It's got a few more years left in it.

Anaconda and Hurler are really the only coasters on that list that I wouldn't mind leaving.

The other two wooden coasters are fun, plus Rebel Yell opened with the park. I hope they both stay a little while longer. Although this word about Grizzly's station being harder to find makes me think that might be next on the chopping block (hopefully not). Avalanche is the only Mack bobsled in the states. Not sure if that's any significant... It could use a retheme to match being next to Volcano though.

Project Geauga Lake - Photos! - BGW Crowd Calendar - Don't look back, as you brave the Black Forest
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10/26/12 at 03:02pm in Move from the coaster collection Identity (Latest Edit: 10/26/12 at 03:03pm by Ben.)
Post: #12
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Shockwave popular? umm, no.......
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Post: #13
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You should've seen it last Saturday, it had a longer line than anything else in the park bar Volcano, i305, and Dominator.
Thanks given by:  Zachary, Ludwig II
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10/26/12 at 03:41pm in Move from the coaster collection Identity (Latest Edit: 10/26/12 at 03:41pm by Zachary.)
Post: #14
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^ This is true.

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Post: #15
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Really? That's really surprising. But it still stinks
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